I’m Abdulaziz Almahmeed and today’s date is the 25th of November aa twenty twenty-one today is Thursday the time currently aa is approximately aa ten thirteen aa and we’re in Mama Anisa’s house that’s located in Almansouriya area in Kuwait, aa ma’am do we have your permission to record the interview can we have your verbal permission to record?
Go ahead.
Thank you, aa can you tell us your full name?
Anisa Muhammed Jafaar,-
Yes, bless you-
I forgot this name-
[Almahmeed laughs]-
I became [laughing] Mama Anisa (is the predominant one) honestly I love love the name Mama Anisa.
Lovely, aa aand this is a routine question but the nationality?
Kuwaiti.
Bless you.
First degree [laughing].
Bless you bless you, aa and what’s the date aand place of birth?
Aaa on tthe aa the hill, I don’t know wh what a hill is aa my house was next to my father’s was next to Mulla Saleh’s aa mosque aa Mulla Saleh on the aa hill, the hill in Aljibla.
Yes, aa the hill is that a neighborhood in Aljibla?
Aa aa it’s a Jibla hill I mean our house is directly I mean from aa Mulla Saleh’s may he rest in peace aa mosque aa, our entire neighborhood was all well-known Kuwaiti people, and we lived in that neighbor- I mean I opened my eyes in this neighborhood aa.
Aaa and what’s your date of birth?
Aaa d aa like the month or something wallah look they’ve written down aa nineteen thirty-five for me, I remember that when the time came to get a citizenship aa I had Sauod my brother’s Abdulaziz’s son he’s my trustee he was aa aa in the the a aaa in the place of the doc- doctor he ha had to take so he told me aaa l-look ma’am like in an Egyptian accent and something like that I need why do you say you were born in thirty-five? Tell them you were born in forty, I asked him why? He said because when you the time comes for the aa retirement aa honestly I still don’t understand, aah it seems that if a the younger I was the more my retirement will be the the my dinar aa, it became clear to me later that no when I refused aaa like it wasn’t possible but aaa I actually don’t know how old I am exactly, like I didn’t have a birth certificate I didn’t take it from my family, so mm aa I told him s put what you see fit, so he put me down as nineteen thirty [laughing] like if I were to measure my age now I’d do it from January nineteen thhirty so that would make me ninety-one [laughing]-
Mashallah-
So it’s the I mean aa he told me no, this isn’t right, let’s make you younger, let us have you at thirty-five or forty so that when you retire you have a bigger retirement, a a and what happened is that when I retired re- the retirement pay was so little even the social security organization told me ma’am you’re doing yourself dirty, like the service he was doing me it was the aa was for my own good but I refused, so it’s my birth is nineteen thirty-five-
Yes aa as it’s the-
The original.
That’s the one you’re sure of aa the year of birth is thirty-five?
Yes ninetee- honestly this is like my son in our time it seems to me it wasn’t in the the thirties or forties no one made sure of their birth- their birthdate in any any day and month.
Aa-
Only the place they were born.
Yes.
So in- in regards to me aaa age doesn’t mean anything to me any moment anything because and thank god I’ve lived my entire life I thi- think my entire life was beautiful and had its happy moments despite the aaa like every life has its pains and hardships but I always see it day by day by god’s graces and it’s one of the most beautiful I think my life is the one most beautiful lives lived by humanity.
Thank god-
Thank god-
Aa but ma’am on what basis aa like did you find out that aa your birth year is nineteen thirty-five? aa-
Because he told me he’s going to put me down as thirty-five, so I told him to put me down as thirty-five.
Yes.
Like I um now I d- mm I still don’t know what my accurate age is, I don’t know, like I don’t have- my father may he rest in peace registered me on my birthday mm when is my birth or my mother I don’t know I don’t have that that that document, s-so it doesn’t affect me like mm it doesn’t make or cause me any inconvenience.
Aa okay you’ve told me about or mentioned aaa hill aa Jibla?
Aa Jib- yes yes.
Aaa can you tell me about this area or neighborhood that you’ve lived in?
Wallah it was one of the one of the most beautiful neighborhoods in Kuwait, Jibla hill, like I remember our house and then the stretch of the street from our house to what’s now Aljahra street was long aaa aaa in aaa one step, like I know my neighbors would you like me to tell you who our neighbors were?
Yes yes go ahead.
Our neighbors here is the house of Mr. aa Yaqoub may they rest in peace here is Almuteb house here is Alfarhoud house here is Almunayes here is Aldakheel house here is Dekhayel house like Rushaid house Alnassar house Suod Alzaid house like I remember them because we used to play outside like there were there were good intentions all the houses were open so aa like aa mingling was encouraged even girls mingling no one believed that girls and boys mingled in that time, we played with the kids in the neighborhood girls and boys like, life was really nice, like our life in Kuwait was beautiful, until this moment but of course with a difference every ten years I put it in a stage.
Aa well could you describe the house you lived in?
An old modern Kuwaiti house how? A house two yards, one yard that was really big, one that had a kitchen and the pantry that had the storage, aand the room where we sat in the winter and in the summer we were in the yard, and the first yard the small one that had the rooms that we slept in right? On the roof that we wen- that we went up to during the summer to sleep on – like a house like any other Kuwaiti hou- but it was nice clean and small aand made of stone, aa the small yard aa was laid with ce- cement and the other yard was laid with white mud that was brushed daily and was sprayed in the- with water so the ground remained clean nice and cold during summer and winter.
Aa you mentioned that it was an old modern house-
Yes-
Aa what do you mean by that?
What I meant was that when I see it remember it now aa it was a clean h-house like it’s not how they sometimes unfortunately represent Kuwaiti houses as broken and, windows no no it was a beautiful house, and that was the case for most Kuwaiti houses, I mean it’s not like how you would imagine the houses broken and clustered house on top of house no no, they were beautiful and every hou- every room if it didn’t have one window it had two windows, so there would be an airflow, like aaaaa you’re making me feel proud and appreciative of the fact that I’ve lived in Kuwait at that time.
That’s good aand aa yes do you think your house was different in any way than the other houses in the neighborhood or did it look like them-?
N-No there was no no difference all houses were similar but it di- aa it differs in that there were big houses and small houses, and our house thankfully was big, it was truly big like it contained an entire family our family I mean my mother and father and brothers and sisters and a aa my aunt’s children and my uncle’s children like aaa life was very aaa simple, our lives were simple, we were we were a bit spoiled honestly in regards to me because my fa my father may he rest in peace was aa a respectable man, and it’s not because he’s my father and I want to make him look good no a cultured man who was gracious and respectful and understanding aaa Arabic was his preferred language in spea in speaking, aaa he made sure that we went to school to learn he made sure- it was a nice thing aaa any book would be in his hands any newspaper at that time would be available any slip of paper that had any writing politics literature anyway he would make sure to bring it to me and say Anisa read it, what you read today and not understand wi- believe me will live in your mind and you will understand it once you get older and that’s what happened, now I remember plenty of things from the books he brought me a book rea aa O I remember what I aaa lived like I read from, and after that I had my uncle Mahmoud may he rest in peace Mahmoud Shawqi Alayoubi I have two uncles my uncle Abdulfattah Alayoubi I have my uncle Mahmoud Shawqi Alayoubi he was the one that the there’s a school named after him, it was in aa Shuaiba maybe it’s still in Shuaiba or they moved it back to Hadiya its original place I do don’t exactly know, and and a poet he used to help me in he used to tell me you’re a human with a love for poetry it’s obvious, he would come and give me in his books I ke- ke- kept them from the poetry books he aaa gifted me was the Diwan aa Almuwazeen, so life wasn’t as routine-y as people think it was that our life in Kuwait was just eat and drink and sleep and waking early no, there was in our life us in our house life was good, like the first to introduce home cinema in houses in Kuwait was Mohammed Jafar’s house, I mean cinema like the screen and the device and aa and the old movies Antar and Abla Buthaina’s Passion mm mm films films, and I remember in the year fifty-five aaa we got a colored picture called A Date with Life starring Shadya andaa Fatin Hamama may god [laughing] have mercy on all who have died s s I mean and we got Antara’s Passion like stuff aa life had some sort of sweetness in the life, in the meaning of life.
I will circle back to the topic of cinema because I’m very intrigued-
Yes yes-
Later-
Yes g-
But aa since you mentioned your father may he rest in peace aa can you tell us what he did for a living?
Wallah I remember that my father used to work aa like private in aa, aa h- aa how do you say privately in ruling, like aa he was a semi private secretary he wasn’t like a not exactly a secretary, but his connection to Alsabah family was a deep bond since like since since the moment I opened my eyes I saw d with with Sheikh Ahmad Aljaber may he rest in peace, we had a house in Hawally right across Bayan palace, of course the features changed now but our house was across from Bayan palace, so I remember it was walking distance not a drive I remember Sheikh Ahmad Aljaber may he rest in peace, he ca came came to our house and then he would go out with my father and they would walk in Hawally it was nice the the the we were in Hawally, aa walking was nice especially around Spring days the desert and the aaa heavy rain that came and we aa we had in front our house like a pond, it’s a mud pond a bit dug up like dug up by time, so i- it fills up when there’s heavy rain rain c com- I knew it when I was young I used to hear them say ooooh the the rain is coming to the the the aa this pond was from Arifjan, like where was Arifjan at that time now it’s close by, so like I was telling you that aaa in the past in in my life was good past, gathered a beautiful family with this wonderful man at its head and my mother may she rest in peace Amina Alayoubi so- aa I mean, aa we lived in Kuwait as Kuwaitis a privileged life, it wasn’t secluded aa the door was open in case we were like any other Kuwaitis, and the neighbors were constantly walking in and out and whoever, c-came over for lunch without your prior knowledge and the food you made for maybe f aa five people would be enough for ten, so i- I mean life in Kuwait if you’d like t- I would talk about it life in Kuwait was very old you know, I mean old and sweet our lives were beautiful.
Aaa okay could you tell us the nature of your relationship with your mother and father may they rest in peace- in this time in Jibla hill?
Wallah loo- aa l like the nature estab like time aa establishes it, time itself establishes like a life with no formalities no, in if if my father was present there wasn’t that fear and that worry everyone spoke about any subject asked any question, aa my mother was a bit stern she had the belief that girls should be aaa under the protection of boys and that was the case, in my case personally with my father may he rest in peace aaa I remember that aa there was a back and forth in, aa he was a man with great knowledge of politics he loved it I remember when th the revolution happened in Egypt happened revo the revolution of fifty-two aa the revolution of Jamal Abdulnasser, aa I used to talk to him and I told him dad because I heard on the radio, aa he was aa like there was a saying if you’d like to hear it?
Of course.
He told me this man, a man of manhood came at a time that isn’t his- no at a time that isn’t his and for people that aren’t his people, that was his opinion of Jamal Abdulnasser, I remember when the the the coup in Jordan if you’d like-
Of course.
I remember when when aaa King Hussain may he rest in peace aa like he to aa took his father King Talal to to Turkey I think the I don’t know where because he was ill and and he became ruler succeeding his father there was aaa there was a back and forth in my life he allowed me may he rest in peace, s so this aa like gave me in my life aa something like aa made me realize how important I was, like all our lives in our house every human from boys or girls equally Khaled Abdulkareem Abdulaziz Waleed Ahmad Nasima Anisa which is me Buthaina, every one of us felt we had value in our lives felt like like without any exaggeration or pride they were Mohammed Jafar’s child, because people were l l like they had Mohammed Jafar’s house this big aa house aa it didn’t have a aa mi-millionaire not a wealthy man, he was wealthy in a aa every sense of a good life, he wasn’t w wealthy with money aand and palaces and no no, a normal house aa blanketed aa with scenes of a beautiful life.
Aand who aa lived in this house that you all lived in in Jibla?
Everyone, my father may he rest in peace and my mother, my brother Khaled my brother Abdulkareem Abdulaziz and Nasima and Anisa and Buthaina and Waleed and Ahmed, after that Khaled like got ma- and and the ones that got married in the house, Khaled got married in the house, Abdulkareem aa he was the one who go-got married aa immediately got himself a house on his own, but Khaled stayed for a while like he had his b boys Faisal may he rest in peace I think and Mustafa and Fouad and I think they were in the same house, why why am I saying that it was a beautiful family, Abdulaziz got married at home, like even when we re aaa rented a house for him when he got married I mean when the family grew bigger and such we had between us and the house he lived in aa something we call nigba firja firya like open like aa we’d go from our house to Abdulaziz’s house Abdulaziz’s house like aa depending on th this door that didn’t have an actual door if it was open.
And how were the family members aa distributed on the rooms in the house?
No like look there was was aaa [clears throat] excuse me, I mean my father and mother had their own room, Khaled and his wife had their own room, us younger people like when we were younger aa aa we were three girls in one room, and the boys two in a room two in a room, so we didn’t live a life of poverty and a life of limitations, no one wanted to like overpower the other no, in regards to the roof I remember this life exactly, aa at the foot of the stairs aaa was my father’s bed because he was the dutiful guard that we saw as kids, and aaa after the the everyone had a bed arou- around each other every boy was sleeping on the boy’s bed close to my father and us girls are surrounded the the like aaa the the the we were also raised by Mama Moza’s in the house may she rest in peace and me and my mother and everyone slept- aaa aah what a beautiful life.
Aa these were the beds you told me about when you slept on the roof?
Behe- wooden beds.
Yes, was that in the rooms or on the roof?
On the roof and in wi- in winter we bring, the beds down to the to the rooms, and in summer we carry them up to the roof.
Why did you sleep on the roof during the summer?
Pardon?
Why did you sleep on the roof during the summer-?
Because summer because of the heat where would we sleep? We slept o o on the roof and if it were warm I mean if the weather turned a bit cold we’d take the- we’d take our beds to the yard, and if it got really cold we’d go down to the bedroom, that was how most Kuwaitis lived this life.
Aa alright aa do you also remember what was the nature of your relationship to your brothers and sisters at that time?
Wallah ah aa look, aa my father may he rest in peace taught us respect, and my mother as well, so look we were y young at that time, we didn’t understand these were the nature of things, but it was aa engraved in us, like my my father would walk in and we’d immediately go to our feet, my mother would have guests and we wouldn’t go bother her or sit around, my brothers had to have a degree of respect, like now I like seeing when the like aa with youn- Kuwaitis when we always say today I’m at my brother’s house, or my- it’s nice, a brother is a form of solace, a brother is solace so our brothers were honestly our solace, I mean I’m Khaled’s sister, Abdulkarim’s sister Abdulaziz’s sister Walid’s sister Ahmed’s sister I’m happy that even in my work if you’d like me to tell you-
Of course-
Like when aaa I started aa in the ministry of information I had my brother Abdulaziz may he rest in peace was deputy of Radio and after that he became deputy of the ministry, aa Saad Jafar dep deputy of Radio and then he moved to aa advisor in the office of the minister of information and then de-de-deputy of television and deputy of radio and deputy you know anyway, so with him I felt that the people of Kuwait all of them and I mean it with all my heart every one of them took me in with their respect and their love but I used to aaa hold my head up high even more when I feel like my brother or my nephew was in this ministry I was walking into, I mean I I had another similar feeling aa when I was little I walked down the street I used to feel like my brother was right behind me, same with my brothers my brother and my little nephew who’s Saad Jafar in aa the ministry I worked at I used to come and go and you know that working space often had more men than women, so I felt proud that aaa I was surrounded by a all this love from people in Kuwait essentially, and respect and more after I would walk out and I would turn around and I’d find my brother leaving in his car for example and I’m in fro behind or in front of him a thing thing of like pride for me.
Aaa alright you mentioned that aa in your house in Jibla there aa aa like your neighbors would spontaneously come for a visit and you’d go over-
Yes indeed yes indeed.
Aa can you tell me what those visits were like who used to visit you?
Look we were young, whoever came over came for my mother not for us, older women would come and visit with each other, my mother was the kind may she rest in peace that if during lunch she didn’t see at least two of our neighbors stepping inside the house she would be upset, she would always include them by telling the boys to eat on their own because she would have so and so coming over, like aaa she wasn’t stingy as they’d say, nice, it was nice that even when they were around my brothers would sit and eat and us women my mother’s friends would sit with them because everyone was young, but of course when we grew up our pattern of life began to change bit by bit.
Aa did people only come to visit you or did you also go and visit people in the neighborhood?
Wallahi for us, when it comes to us aaa no going out and visiting was harder for the girls, but from what I remember my mother may she rest in peace she liked to keep the house open, she liked I mean even when when we grew a bit older when aaa Palestine aaa the second world war happened and the Palestenians were forced out of their country and aand they began working here in Kuwait most of them- and they came to Kuwait and I won’t forget that moment, something beyond your imagination in that our gathering in that I mean Wallah it’s the same as this room it was long and aand at our head aa they call it a veranda or Liwan or Arish aa our house maybe had no less than nine ten Pale-- Palestinian people, the teachers and the families our Palestinian neighbors rented houses aaaa the aa Egyptian teachers aa aa they were the teachers would be with my brothers and aa their wives would be with us, I mean they were older than us but we learned plenty from them, I remember from them and I still now say Oh wow I mean aa the Muslim brotherhood [laughing] by the way, Hassan Albanna and aaa the other one aa Sayed Qutub aaa the aa she was over at our house aa her and her husband constantly Khalida bint Alhuthaimi, bint Alhuthaimi one of the poles of the Muslim Brotherhood we didn’t have a he was a teacher and she was a teacher and her husband a teacher, and and she used to aa she had pregnancy cravings s aa so our house was open to her, like aa long story short my mother may she rest in peace wasn’t a closed-off lady, she was sm- I mean she was respectful and she was open to new ideas unlike, I’ll never forget her that human being look after all this time that she died in maybe seventy-three, seventy-three, from when I lived aa this entire life f from the thirties so f ff aa aah I can aa see my father’s room may he rest in peace and after that they put up a room for us in the big chamber in the big yard, and, and aaa his room was huge this was his and my mother’s but my father was always sitting in that room and I used to aaa wash clothes my clothes and aa I was the type to love serving people in the house I adored being told that’s a good girl Afiya is an old Kuwaiti word good girl Anisoh good, I adored tho those words praises so I used to do laundry and my father may he rest in peace was sleeping midday after lunch and he came out and said aa Anisoh are you still doing laundry? I said yes dad I’m quite happy, I’ll never forget this mo- look at this parental affection this parental mercy and the mercy of the the your attachment w without knowing wh what this attachment means, as per usual he went out after the Asr prayer, he’d pray Asr in the masjid and he’d go o ut, I saw him walk in and behind him a worker and he was carrying I don’t know a car wallah he brought it by car and he got a washing machine, and at that time washing machines in Kuwait like who amongst us would have an electronic washing machine?
Do you remember which year this was?
Pardon?
Do you remember which year this all happened?
Yes wallah of course I remember like aa, maybe, in forty-nine? Fifty something like that.
At that time were you still in Jibla?
Ye- we were still in our house, we stayed in that house for a long time, we didn’t move out until later, mov- my father’s house moved to Alqadsiya and I moved to a house I mean aa in my private life and, so I would never forget it that he said and he brought a washing machine and everyone freaked out over this washing machine and he said this is so Anisoh never washes anything with her hands, I don’t want to see Anisoh holding the laundry everyone wash your own clothes in the machine, don’t make Anisoh wash don’t enslave your youngest wallahi I will never forget those words and he was laughing of course, s so like when one looks back into their past I do hope that my generation and the younger and the younger, that we wouldn’t squander that life aaa that passed and we wouldn’t prefer the life we currently live over our past, on the contrary we take from the past what we need now in the present, and I personally think my dear boy Abdulaziz that I’m not at the age where aaaa I mean aa I guide others I’m at an age and thank god an old age an old woman like I told you at the the start my birthdate aa was in the thirties thirty-five or forty or twenty, I don’t know [laughing] anyway god almighty gave me long life and I’m still alive st still every day I wake up I thank god, and now thank god technology made things easier and gave us things that are of good use to us not things that would cause us pardon me to look down on li- reading or listening no, th things aaa like like this morning aa I turned on the the mobile at night I turn it off I don’t leave it on aand I saw on Whatsapp a beautiful story written by one of the young people, aaa life is apparently beautiful and l life is nice and the story is a bit long I wouldn’t want to read it to you like if you want me to tell it to you I would but I wouldn’t want to bother you with aaa the story is about aa cherishing your parents and the the children’s respect for their parents despite despite what the father would be like despite what it is despite what his life is like despite what his aaa behavior is like at t times pardon me for this word when an older person aa might be more oblivious aa oblivious than the younger person so it there’s this embarrassment and despite that in this story the boy took care of of his father in a way, aa I can’t say unbelievable way I would say in a way that god wanted to so he would love this boy so this is what technology could do to us this is what I hope to see when we op- open the mobile in the morning it’s the only thing in front of us aa it would be aa the words thank god, we’ve woken and the dominions have become god’s.
Aa yes-
Is what I’m telling you of any use or not-?
Very much on the contrary weee I and- I’m truly and I’m having fun in this interview bless you.
Thank you.
Aaa ma’am you told me that you used to play with the kids in the neighborhood-
Of course.
Yes.
Aa I mean look us girls we would gather and do something called Sharooka, Almailam house were our neighbors their daughter and and and g- the neighborhood girls all of us would gather a- around our house, but not inside- outside the house, or in the narrow long hallway, one would bring the onions one would bring the rice one would bring the oil one would bring aa ww water one would bring aa spices from the- would share it and god knows what we were sharing and the rice and would cook it and eat it indulge in it, it was a good trait to have of course now life changed that, what was the role of the boys? Th The boys were aa the protection shield to all those girls the boys in the neighborhood would gather and play there was no school of course they would gather and guard those girls, I mean if for example we wanted to go out we wanted to go to a neighbor’s house and there’s some distance between, we’d walk on the right the boys would be on the left, you better think twice before you know no one from another neighbo- from another neighborhood could come to the- come to this neigh- if a stranger subhanallah came over, you’d find everyone ganging up on him asking him what he wants wha- I mean they’d be surprised why he was in this neighborhood, protection was like mmm it wasn’t the police it was more than the police no one harassed another I mean we aaa were a forbidden zone us girls, so our parents we- were at peace knowing we were safe they never said wallah why did they go out, no, there was someone to protect them even when we grew up we’d go to school and come back and the neighborhood boys and aa look we were a handful we’d go from house to house and gather and g go bring aa like us girls we’d go to Alqabaliya school the the the boys would be on the other side so that no one would l like dare drift up his gaze to any of the girls from the hill neighborhood girls no.
Aa alright ma’am other than the sharooka you used to do what were aa the activities-
No games girls hopscotch aa I don’t know what they call it here Alr- Alrabaza they put the the aa aa Alkhabsa Alkhabsa which consists of dirt, and we’d put a piece of any piece of the the the m the just any piece of chinaware, aand pl two teams, and we play this- who’d beat the other- I mean Wallah we had a lot of games us girls, se- sewing aaa we’d make dolls, like like I aa may she rest in peace my mother like I remember she’d collect aa when she makes clothes and col collects all the scraps she had with her and give it to us, sometimes she’d sew it for us using the machine to help us or she’d sew it and show us how to do it by hand we’d make the doll head and hair and and eyes and h face aand dresses like aa, those were our ga- like simple games f fit for the time because that was what we had, we had nothing else but in regards to boys what did they have? aa something if I said it now I don’t know if they know the name, Alqafood what is this Alqafood? It consists of aa they take aa, aaa now a palm tree, aa so aa one of the aa branches of the tree th that had that had like I don’t know what I call it now in Kuwaiti I want to find a name for it, aaaa aa a branch of the palm tree, they take it and take off the th the the aa the leaves it had and what remains is a stick no aa be- like be- I mean mmm like like you see it now on a palm tree, it’s not not ev- even no, it has a bend, a and they’d put the metal on it and they’d ride on this this bike the joy these boys, aaa like every one of us in Kuwait at that time lived i in a beautiful way.
Aa that was Alqafood but Alkhabsa you told me you hid something in the sand and what was the goal of this game?
I call this game Alkhabsa-
Yes.
I mean we would come we were how many girls five girls those were a team and the other a team we make a mess we hide this thi and we mess this up and we distribute who has the this they find it in in the in the dirt in the sand li aa like they would be the winning team, I mean for ex for example if we said now that football [laughing] like there would be two teams.
Yes and you told me about the game Aldraza I think?
Aldara- b that was for the boys, not for us-
Yes what was that one?
Us us not for us the bike this alqafood ma or for example aa they’d make something like the metal like this aa they’d make it like I mean aa aa the bicycle metal and they’d push it, because like one foot here and one foot there and metal at the center and they’d walk around with it as if now he’s driving aa drive like cyc- aa mm aa a bicycle.
Aa alright let’s go back to your house and you were saying aa-
Mashallah [laughing]-
[Almahmeed laughs] bless you ma’am, aa yo aa you were saying that aa like when lunch is served aa there was a high probability that one of the neighbors would come over do you remember what dishes you used to cook and eat?
Look, I’m sitting here like I told you and I still say it our father was not a millionaire, but he was virtuous and rich in spirit and li- and lived a good life so we never f never felt hunger, or wi with food like either meat machboos or fish mutabaq Kuwaiti food or muadas aa with green lentils and r murabyan, like either chicken stew, or chick- machboos like the same Kuwaiti dishes now but it the flavor was different it was sixty thousand times better than the way it’s cooked now.
Why?
Aa like I remember my mother may she rest in peace the the there wasn’t tomato paste which now is in different colors and sizes, my mother during tomato season used to make tomato paste on her own at home, and she’d put it away before tomatoes become scarce, there wasn’t aa the da the dates they would bag up the dates and they’d place under it aa li- the molasses would drip down date molasses, s s aa it c cam- aa and the khalal (unripe dates) season would end the rutab (dates close to being fully ripe) would start the dates would start, we didn’t need anything from outside, everything was from within the house, I mean we had this room they’d call it room they now call it a pantry, they used to call it the stock room, the stock room had everything you craved everything needed for the cooking, the rice the green lentils the- like my father may he rest in peace he didn’t bu- like, ski- in Kuwaiti we say skimp on us he would bring more for example he’d bring the ric- the rice he’d bring the aa the smaller one the green lentil the the tea the sugar the everything all these things were available, like I don’t think we like look Kuwait had its days of poverty in the time I lived, we didn’t have that in our house, never I mean people the oil the ghee the country ghee like the ghee that was brought by the ooqiya.
What’s an ooqiya?
At that time- ooqiya like m aa they’d measure it aa ooqiya ooiqya, I remember my father may he rest in peace aa cans that were like aa a gas cannister they’d call it’s as big as a gas cannister, I my mother um- aa Moza may she rest in peace she used to say uncle Bu Khaled while she put her ve veil like co-covered, uncle Bu Khaled we want aa oil and ghee, he said it hasn’t been long I put I poured some for you they’d take from, she said your kids drink it because really we ate and were happy youth boys and girls, there was not m and god is witness to this word never had ghee been brought in less than six seven containers at that time whereas the houses of rulers w wouldn’t put that much, more than se no less than six seven aa aa aaa se what do they call it aa like the can that for gas, we lived in bliss wallah like when I remember my life in Kuwait I don’t tell anyone that someone was poor I never felt like I needed something, like I’m a someone from a big family we live in a house, we didn’t live iin we lived in the care of a father may he rest in peace in heaven like aa he taught us respect he respected us, like I never heard him tell us a cruel word by scolding, or raised his hand and slapped us, I was never slapped by my father may he rest in peace, neither me nor my sisters, or my brothers of course they became men, and whe- and and whe aa I remember that when I was aa I loved reading a lot and my brother Abdulaziz had a big big library Abdulaziz Jafar may he rest in peace at that time it was considered one of the bigger libraries, and I needed to read take one book, finish it then return it if you don’t want your brother to find it he didn’t want anyone touching his library, because of greed or a passion for reading I remember a day aa I walked in and grabbed a bunch of books- whatever was in front of me, I saw it I put it in front of me, and then I lost track of time lying in that yard in the summer reading, and Abdulaziz walked in oh god almighty, he picked up those books I remember it vividly I was young he wanted to drop them on my head like he wanted wanted to scold me, just as my father was walking in may he rest in peace, he shouted at him, Azooz he didn’t call him Abdulaziz, Azooz and then he said- he always called him Bu Sauod even before he got married, he said Bu Sauod what do you think you’re doing? You’re supposed to tell her to take and read more, not prevent her from something she loves and is good for her, so like that was our relationship with my father a really really good relationship, [whispering] would you excuse me?
Yes yes, do you want us to stop recording?
No no, no-
Yes.
I just wanted to see-
Yes yes, alright you told me that like you had a stock room for example rice and oil aand if th there was a tomato season-
Everything aa we never needed anything.
Yes aa-
Even when- by the way after we grew up Kuwait imported this rice called Twenty Six, no matter how much you wash it no matter how much you cook it no matter what you do with it it smells and tastes bad, and may he rest in peace Aladsani was a minister I don’t know someone from the Aladsani family I forgot his name may he rest in peace, mm I was being interviewed with him on television that was after the work- after I joined the the media business I, and my i interview with him was live like I and I mean he and I was like they used to ask me I don’t know wallah who was moderating, so aa he was talking about this rice that aa during the rule of Sheikh Jaber Alahmad may he rest in peace, it was that rice that Kuwaitis didn’t want because it was cheap and it wasn’t very I m aa my blood boiled honestly and I immediately said, I told him uncle it wasn’t edible, my father refused to bring it home to us I told him that, it wasn’t edible, he said my wife may she and everyone rest in peace, she used to make it so deliciously I said maybe your wife was a talented cook but we couldn’t us Mohammed Jafar refused to bring it home to us, I mean I w was naughty in- like it apparently was taboo, an old aging man and I was on another mm according to to to a minister minister at that time but having self-worth me and life and the and my well-being that I lived in because my father may he rest in peace I remember he said something he walked in and said aaa Um Khaled of course they didn’t call a woman by her name Amina, Um Khaled there’s this rice in Kuwait called Twenty Six Twenty Six I think, I’m not buying it for you my mother said may they all rest in peace why? He said it wasn’t edible, but may they be guided by god they brought it and they wanted to force it on the Kuwaiti people, like I always used to these are bags of the the they call it aa Binlam Karachi rice a and Amber I don’t know what from aa this I thi rice you’re eating it’s the rice that, I’m not bringing that r rice rice to you like aaa things like where were we and where aaa was the minister? That rice y aa it was different, richer but not like- but I he was different he was rich but not in fils and dinars he was rich in spirit, rich in spirit, his spir spirit was rich and proud and he made sure to plant that in us may he rest in peace, he planted that in us.
Aa question this twenty six rice was sold or something?
I it was sold in Kuwait it was distributed to Kuwaiti people I think, let me remember if they used to sell it f for money or if they handed it out like provisions I don’t know apparently they sold it twen- like if you remembered if you went back to that era that after the sixties you’d find that there’s this rice in Kuwait rice called twenty six or twenty six or twenty six.
Alright when you were living in your house in Jibla aa do you remember from where you used to buy the provisions whether it was rice or oil ghee?
We didn’t buy, it wasn’t us we didn’t know it came to us easy-peasy, it came a car came or the the the to us th the person who brought the meat daily nn not like now in coolers, he brought the meat the aa butcher aaa like I don’t remember their name now those who brought the meat the the water got to the house on aa a donkey, or a ca- camel aa shepherd, like he’d ag- agre- agre- like an ag ag like my father my father has an agreement with them in aa the aa the oil it came the those who brought the oil like aa the food the vegetables and the the t- we had my mother Moza she’d go in and g with the worker and they brought from aa from the market I mean, not us those of us didn’t know we’d just come home and we had to eat, I remember my family I was the kind that d didn’t like big fish, I always thought big fish ate [laughing] ate people in the sea something like in in aa so I remember that we had a clay oven in the house and we had people come over they’d bake bake and they’d make the foo food, so aaa that day they brought the boys they were craving they told my mother Moza may she rest in peace that if you go to the fish market bring us a big grouper fish, II I didn’t have anything to do with it, so she brought the grouper and they grilled it s so I saw this big grouper I when they brought it out it looked like a little kid so I didn’t eat lunch that day, so may he rest in peace my father he said aa this grouper shouldn’t be brought into the house, you don’t satisfy the boys by breaking the girls’ hearts, like aa look at how caring and the aa the like without you g aa getting bored you’d find someone to protect you and st- stand with you.
Aa and aa those who delivered the provisions to your doors was that something common in Kuwait like it happened often?
Yes of course-
Yes-
Yes of cou- Yes of course yes, of course they had an agreement with them and they’d give them an aand s so and so would give them money for the fi- the meat so and so would give the money for the water so and so wouldn’t it was- it was common yes I think in most houses like they’d stock up because it wasn’t comprehensible that the woman of the household would go not every woman of the household would go to the market and buy things? No.
Yes aand-
I mean the one in charge the the aa the man is in charge of everyone in his house.
And the fact that your house had a clay oven was that aa like also aa something common in Kuwait?
Wallah I like I assume yes because our house exactly next to the kitchen in the yard outside not inside the kitchen outside dug- aa they built us made us an oven, and we’d be so happy when it happens aa she’d come like to the may she rest in peace Um Rabab and her mother and and her children and th th the dough was kn kn kneaded and left to rise in the morning and they’d stay over and we’d all have lunch and everything and when the sun set, they would make the the the baking bring and they made it good Mama aa Mama Rabab we want hanawa the small hanawa aa l aa like sa small bread a bit thick aa with holes in it they’d put they’d spray it with oil of ghee and sugar or or molasses it was good and delicious it could we could have that for a snack until dinner you know.
Do you remember how you lit the oven?
No I it wasn’t some like it was for us aa inside maybe if we wanted to have fun they’d put the the wood they’d put the fronds cut it up but they wouldn’t let us younger people go towards towards because we had nothing to do with it.
Yes-
We had nothing to do with it.
Aa ma’am do you mind if we stopped recording and took a small break?
Go ahead son go ahead son go-
Thank you thank you.
Okay it’s now recording, aa ma’am I just wanted to ask you aa in like in regards to aa your h house in Jibla and how you got provisions aa do you remember the water how you got it?
Excuse me? The water?
Aa yes the water.
The water was aa pardon there’s they used to bring on Djerba no let’s not talk standard Arabic let’s talk in the in our Kuwaiti dialect- in the Djerba on aaa what’s it called aa donkey, he would come to us the bringing to us I remember in our house more than seven we called it beeb the beeb it doesn’t have any other name in a aa chinko or metal they used to aa he would come in and pour fill them up it di didn’t didn’t suffice aa two beeb and three like in even though sweet water was rare was he used to fill them up all six or seven my mom may she rest in peace n needed those filled up, and then he would come and put up on the wall that he’d filled one two look how honest they were, he’d markup that today he put seven filled up seven beeb seven biyaba, when they became less the same thing happened he’d come of course and the bill was with my father, that was the way after we aa my father may he rest in peace and may everyone rest in peace Abdullah Almulla Saleh had Allah in the sky and Mohammed Jafar on earth, he never said no to my father and he’d come inside the house with him and he’d sit with us and ask us what we needed and it came- whenever he received anything from abroad since aa Abdullah Almullah was rich and a man aand whenever he received something strange from the aa biscuits from strange things that weren’t avail- he sent them to our house, ma’am Um Khaled he used to tell her ma’am this is for the children, so I remember that he came over once to my father and saw that aaaa, his name was Ali I don’t know wallah the one who who brought the the aa they called him Ali the Duck (Fat Ali) the kids, he brought the aa water and told him why kid? Why didn’t didn’t you bring the water that was brought on the camels? Like they brought it bigger and it was true camels came to our house to pour water for us fill up the be- the aa the biyaba and it stays filled up- like it was despite the scarcity of water but it was never scarce for us, the water I mean I’m telling you ha aa in bold lettering in our house in Mohammed Jafar’s house in Kuwait nothing was scarce, on the contrary we had an abundance of things, and my father travelled a lot to Iraq and Iraq at that time was the ap the apples and the oranges came plentily from Iraq, so it used to get to our house and it would fill it up even to the neighborhood and the our friends and our.
Do you remember what were your uses for water?
For water?
Yes.
Of course aa aa there was some sort of rationing you know, aa the aa we wash- we washed the di- the dishes weren’t was- washed with water from the Jleeb, the Jleeb that was dug up in the house as well aand and we showered in wa- in the sweet water, like that, aa the aa for us so we could wash up in it, we didn’t wash up in (Khireej) water, water- they called it Khreej the one that is the Sulaibi water now so no there was sweet water, sweet water and watermelon soap they called it wash- at that time there wasn’t shampoo there was watermelon soap was the one that’s it’s the Nab the Nabulsi now Iraqi soap was what we used to wash our hair with, like we- Wallah we were spoiled now that I remember it like, life was very aaa like aa mellow for us life was never harsh on us- umm iit wasn’t like I never lived with the hardships of life, like there were strange things I remember like I see it there who in that time had cream for their hands? Who had Vaseline? Who had sh- you f find those things in the house.
Aa yes alright you said that you used to play in the neighborhood as children aaa, do you remember if you ever left the neighborhood? Whether like for running aa for example certain errands or something aa?
Like aa what was in aa no in the holidays, the holidays where aa people visited one another and so we didn’t go out every time.
Mm.
Not every time, but life at home wasn’t boring, especially when there were girls and and a family like th there was everyone had something to do, one liked sewing one liked making- I and god’s my witness was lazy with sewing lazy with cooking but aa I was studious because I was in love with reading, if I had in my hand and in my father’s and my brothers’ hands something legible it had to c come com to Mama Anisa, it came to Anisa at that time Mama Anisa wasn’t there yet, like mm h.
What was the- aa what was the thing that moved aa like for example aa aa your interest in reading do you remember-?
I don’t know Wallah-
Yes.
Look I- because I studied with the Mutawa’a, I studied the Holy Quran and math leave math aside the Holy Quran my Mutawa’a was Sabicha aa Alanjiri, she had this blind trust that I was very studious, so I was the Quran I used to memorize it by heart, the Suwar from the beginning of Alfatihah until aaa the final Surah Say: He is Allah, the One, so aa she like made me read this holy book once and twice therefor I memorized I still thank god at this age memorize a lot of the Holy Quran, and that helped me with strengthening my Arabic language in- because I didn’t get any higher education- I didn’t until it was like my extent of education was less than high school maybe, m aa there wasn’t wasn’t like I didn’t have an opportunity I either became a teacher or I would go back in the house, a teacher for girls older than myself in age but that was alright, Iqbal Alhabbal the wife of Abdullatif Alshamlan may god let everyone rest in peace she insisted she was she the the the examiner the the the aa Alma’arif (Ministry of Education) and she was the one that aa like aa a friend of the ho- my mother and she would come and go, so she worked as a teacher a teacher young- aa younger than the girls that were with her but that was fine, so aa like their trust iin me my love for reading for further exploring like it made me aa aa like educate myself by myself and teach myself by myself so therefor without any pride I challenge any person to discuss any topi- like now I didn’t when someone reads in Ara- they read a verse o poetry, like and thank god I mean I say a couple of days ago on television one of the channels aa beauty is not the clothes that adorn us but beauty is the beauty of the manners and the mind, no it's not the mind, but it’s not my right to object that- that the beauty is the beauty of the manners and the propriety, what what is the correlation between the mind and the beauty of the mind the mind gracious god, and you take care take ca of your mind by your giving by by respecting yourself, beauty is the beauty of the manners and the propriety, no the creation the creation is god god the creator, creation is something you cannot object to the creation of god god created her that way and- even when you say this person no this person is ugly this person is not pretty this girl is pretty so, it’s not your right because you’re not objecting to a human you’re objecting to god’s creation it’s not your right, but beauty is the beauty of propriety that is in the self and in the manners if you were respectful and well-mannered and good, so in like and thank god I didn’t read this in aa university or in a master’s or PhD, whoever did good for them- but no one like they didn’t put this it it’s not like I gave Mama Anisa importance in the eyes of Kuwaitis on the contrary the people of Kuwait gave me a degree that no one else got, and the evidence is that I have a mural in the first ring road if you went to the tunnel now you’d find a Mama Anisa the mother of Kuwait mural.
Really?
Mhm, I didn’t see it a aa aa b but they informed me of it of course the one behind the idea aa my dear girl Dr. Rana Alfares minister of works, I’ll never forget this courtesy ever.
Wonderful.
Li thank god, now like look at people’s appreciation, it’s not in you receiving a plaque with some applause [she claps], I have many of those plaques and that applause from children and from the people of Kuwait in the schools and I appreciate them, so full I could build a house with all those plaques, plaques of the the the that in, until yesterday, like and we’re not in the post-pandemic in Sumaya school aa Sumaya bint bint Kaab I think I forget bint K S Sumaya in Rawda with the dear girl aa the school principal Modhi Alotaibi they recorded an entire episode and it was all about Mama Anisa and they sent me plaques the ones who sent- the kids brought them for Mama Anisa, and you prepared this speech from one of the girls the the girls like aaa Wallahi I’m not saying this out of pride, but like I’m very proud of myself at this age to receive this thing.
Of course aa ma’am I would love to ask you about your experience studying at Mutawa’a-
Yes-
Yes can you tell me about this experience aa what was it like-
At the beginning like when I was young aa aa there were scribes the one that they call Mutawa’a call Scribe I my mother may she rest in peace chose for me in Jibla like for wa- walking of course there wasn’t a car at that time, she chose for me aa the Mutawa’a Sabika Alanjiri, and from house Mama Moza would take me every day in the morning may she rest in peace and she would s stop, aa she’d stay with me until I was done and we’d go back, aa aa the thing that aa the dominant thing over this this Muwawa’a was the Holy Quran, look Abdulaziz my boy I want to tell you something, if you read the Holy Quran you’d find certain sweetness that isn’t in any other book in the world, purity and clarity and beauty and indulgence like you’re in another universe, like when a aa you’re close to god almighty through this Quran through these words, like, like wh when you take from Surat Alba- like me now I’m puzzled by those who put like and they would tell you aa Surat Yasin you read it on a certain day Surat something Su- Why? Gracious Allah’s book you can read it at any time any Surah I don’t know some religious scholars would disagree with me or agree with Mama Anisa’s opinion I don’t know but in my opinion my conviction is that if you take any part of the Holy Quran it’s all good and bountiful it’s all Allah’s words, like when I took just a verse from Surat Albaqara, when I sit and read aa in in Alkursi verse it’s a verse from a long Surah if I read it what is stopping me from reading it like? I must read the the the aa like am I fo forced to do so? No leave me I love this this is what I meant is that in regards to our children now let them love the thing they’re reading, love the thing that’s i that they’re se seeing, love the thing they’re understanding I’m making these kids understand something understand aa they love it in in I understand it even if excuse me aa the the little kid I don’t want to drink milk, I won’t force him to drink milk, like that one way and another I’d make him love the milk, he’d love it, or am I wrong?
No you’re right.
So aa the the Ho- the Holy Quran wants you to love like aa in a way that makes you love it the same way you love your mobile and you pick it up and see on it aa the the decline and downfall not every good thing, not everything is good, us adults don’t see that the mobile now as that- why I one week ago my niece’s son I told him come download Twitter and Snap I don’t have one wallah, I swear to god he downloaded Twitter it was Friday- Thursday, after lunch he downloaded Twitter, aa I didn’t didn’t open like I wanted to see I asked they came over on Friday their lunch was over at our house I told him Abdulrahman what’s the use of Snap and Twitter? He said Mom you know people’s news (he named him) I said to him no no no, please delete them.
[Almahmeed laughs].
Really I deleted them, I have Whatsapp it’s av available, b ut aa the the Youtube I found out a lot of scandalous things on it, if I the elder was b bother by tha how can I let my nieces and nephews like make them love beautiful things that Allah gave us because it’s from gracious Allah these things the the mobile Taught man that which he knew not, am I right or wrong?
Right.
So this is the extent of what Allah wants us to learn then, aa until the people and the coming generations and then until the hour strikes, pardon [incomp].
Aa Alright ma’am you told me that the dominating subject you studied with the Mutwawa’a was the teachings of the Quran-
Yes yes.
Aa do you remember if aa you studied other things with her did she teach you other things?
No she taught aa maths like one two three four like that, but she was ad insistent on ma- the thee Holy Quran and the Arabic language through this Quran, so aa like the book of Allah all of it came down in the Arabic language, so nn it made me love how much I read the Quran like I appreciate the Arabic language, and it upsets me when anyone stumbles in it especially through official channels, Kuwait channels or any other channel I don’t care about other channels I care about the channel of my own country and thank god there are aa people in the channel of Kuwait Television you tip your hat to them and the ministry of information like I’m not sweet talking here I ddo ddo don’t care about them, like Subhanallah fate gave you something, fate gave the ministry now at this time aa my boy Abdulrahman Bidah Almutairi the Minister of Information a man- I only saw him once in my life, when I was in the hospital he visited me, but he is a man who appreciates humankind appreciates work appreciates- you find him daily like he’s youth, like aa he’s with the youth and with older men and with older wo- but a well-mannered human and he knows know what he’s working knows what he’s doing, the same with aa the the the youth in the channels in television in the radio in the the news Mashallah so thank god he’s caring he also looks after aa the aa pronunciation aa the the proper pronunciation, so thank god like god willing our future is always good in Kuwait in aa like from one situation to another situation thank god almighty thanks to knowledge that came from god almighty Taught man that which he knew not until this extent this is what we know and we’ll know more and more inshallah.
Aa Alright ma’am this was in regards to the Mutawa’a you also-
Yes-
Mentioned that your house was the first house to have a cinema-
Yes [laughing]-
Can you tell me more about this?
And you don’t forget anything? [laughing].
No I don’t [laughing].
[Mama Anisa laughs] Mashallah you’re so clever, Wallah I aa like dd I don’t make claims about this thing but the Kuwaiti people said that the cinema was in Mohammed Jafar’s house, even Ba my son Bader Buresli laughs used to tell me why don’t you charge the people that came in [laughing] it was that the the do door was open and the cloth that screen was th there and I don’t know how they operated the device that play- aa one of my brothers operated the cinema and the door was ope- and came a cinema and everyone came in whoever wanted to come in came in boys girls women came in and hung around and watched the movie that, there was there was also this thing brought so much joy in an episode from Bader Buresli’s shows he said that the first house that we entered aa that had a cinema was Mohammed Jafar’s house.
Aa do you remember aaa like where from where you got the movies that you watched?
Wallah I won’t li- lie to you I don’t say from where we- who gave us who brought them in the first place it was my father of course like, in the first place of course my father like, aa and then the books that I read aa can you believe that I read Alzeer Salem, aa I used to read it now I saw it they made it into aa a show aa the renowned Syrian actor aa the one that’s-
Saloom Haddad?
Saloom Haddad, Wow- is his name really Saloom Haddad?
I assume, right-
Like-
Yes-
Like putting aside the titles and the names this man in this serie- and he has also like a group of young people and characters from aa Syria, aa honestly it was a thrilling drama it was, like it made me understand aa the aa what I read when I was younger through this incredible show aa and when I was older like I saw it more than twice, every time it was on I’d watch the sho- like Alzeer Sa- Abu Zaid Alhilaly Antara Bin Shaddad and I’ve memorized I’ve memorized their poems they said and who knows who th- Amro’o Alqais, Stop to moan upon my lover's dwelling remnants. Which its trail remains between some of Mecca places, that aa time I remained aa what did it mean? Something concave Arabic language no I found th that there were certain places, like aa, aa I don’t want to burden you like plenty I memorize and know plenty of things.
Aa what were the types of readings that you did when you were aaa in your childhood—
When I was young—
Yes yes-
Aa I told you at the beginning my father may he rest in peace he was the one who brought the books for me, he told me to read and I said I don’t understand it, he said read what you don’t understand today will stay in your mind when you’re older and his word was two thousand percent right, like there are things now I remember, I remember aa in like like aa would you like me to tell you?
Yes of course.
Like aa Antara bin Shaddad is he a legend or a real person is he married does he have children—like all I know was that pride in Arabs, like the Beni Shaddad like aa a known tribe, would you like me to tell you the poem or would it take-
Go ahead, of course.
So—
Or if you’d like—
Antara tal- Antara was ta ta talking to his son one of his sons he was explaining to him the meaning of dignity of self-importance, maybe the words in the poem might be puzzling to some young people what does this word mean? But yourself and oth- you would know for sure, he said to him to his son, govern your swords on the throats of the enemies, and if you went into a place of humiliation then leave, and if a coward prevented you on a day of fighting, afraid for you of the abundance of the legion, then ignore his saying and don’t give it weight, and proceed if the meeting is happening, and choose for yourself a status to prosper in, or die honorably under the shade of a chestnut tree, then he responds to himself, if I was counted as a slave then my dignity, is above the stars and fame and prosperity, or if the knights of Abs deny my belonging to them, then the sharpness of my spear and sword is proof enough for me, in my strength and with my sword I received reverence, not by relation or the plentiful of beauty, do you understand me?
Yes.
I threw my spear in the battlefield and it cut through, and the fire is smoldering from the tips of the sword, and when my steed was wounded in the heat of battle, he stopped and waited for his master, and then he says to his son, don’t give me the water of life with humiliation, but pour the cup of bitter melon for me with splendor, there’s nothing more bitter than bitter melons, the water of life with humiliation is like hell, and hell with splendor is a better home, I mean what is the these aa aaa the words for aa pride and owning your dignity? Like he listed the things that the wa the war that they used aa the spear and arrows and that and wealth in aa in the prosperity, he’d go back and tell them that being in hell when you’re proud is better than living in aa in humiliation aa and and you’re aa without dignity without, so this poem if I told when I first read it I read it in the days of my father may he rest in peace, he was the one who brought me brought me the book about Antara Bin Shaddad and said read these poe- the poem, which means, if your time would allo-
Of course yes yes.
When I finished studying it was called the Female Education Degree and I told you I would either stay at home or I would work as a teacher, so come on Abdulaziz who is Bu Sauod the writer my brother aa, write a letter for Anisa so we could bring it to the Circle of Education there wasn’t a ministry or anything, so he wrote t- of course it was the usual cliché aaa gentlemen aa by tha- by that he meant distinguished gentlemen I don’t know what it is needed of me to work for you and, and wallah Abdulaziz my boy I wouldn’t swear and lie to you, my father came I was standing of course Abdulaziz was showing it to him, he read what’s written, I saw a puzzled look on his face and he looked at Abdulaziz, he told him are you not ashamed? Like it was hard for him a father to talk to his son like this, is that a letter you write? I thought of course he didn’t like what was written, bring me a pen and paper, look at what I’m writing this is what I memorized, no dear distinguished gentlemen or I need you aa since the aa how aa how aa so, dear members of the Education Board, this is in the aa the aa on top, and I will never forget what he wrote, as I have finished my hi hi hig- primary studies, and seeing as Kuwait needs me, needs my work [laughing] I hereby aa present I don’t know li like he wrote that that you needed the other way around aa- Kuwait needs that I become something this is when, here he brought me the poem by Antara and read it to me, why would you humiliate why would you humiliate your sister by writing this? Considering I’m in need- in need of what? What was my salary at that time in Kuwait? Thirty-two rupees, in rupees, [laughing] no they needed me, and he took the letter himself and took it to the Board of Education and gave it to them [laughing] and I immediately got hired as a teacher.
Amazing aa-
M aa my father, like, he had this unbelievable sense of pride no on the contrary in a this is a normal human, you me like why would I humiliate myself because I now need something I would go ask I aaa now my daughter Mashael would you take it? No I wouldn’t take to the minister of I don’t know aa, you you need Mama Ani- it’s not arrogance, you you dese if you see that Mama Anisa is cap- can do this thing for you so, you’re more than welcome.
Aa Ma’am-
Or am I wrong?
No of course you’re right.
Go ahead.
Thank you aa it’s obvious that Antara Bin Shaddad’s poem had made a huge impact on you-
Ooooh.
Do you remember if you engaged with other readings you also re- read in your childhood as well-
Plenty, plenty-
It resonated with you?
A lot- would it bother you if I mentioned them?
No no it won’t bother me yes-
Like I on dignity and pride and the aaa the late poet Ahmad Shawqi, there was an epic he wrote about aa Mark Antony and Cleopatra, Mark- your time n not like would you be interested in hearing it?
Aa ma’am we’ll record as much as you like.
Yes.
Yes yes.
Aa, aa C it was known that Cleopatra humiliated the emperors, and despite that there was a time where she was aa w was humiliated too, so she was ordered to return to Roma, so she brought according to what they say- aa aa the snake the serpent and put it in a basket and left it around him, and she used to talk to the serpent and tell him and it was in the- she told it hello my savior now come to me, and welcome to the salvation which has come to me, I bought the poison from your redemptive jaw, with my power and added my own money, aa on your fangs is the blueness of deaths from which is, the antidote for the self from the dark nights, and the people knew that my crown, is raised by the sun and the distinguished families, my dear homeland demands it, and fathers with lavish belongings, and she goes back to say now, II am I to go in the- like she was asked to return to Roma, II am I to enter Roma in the clothes of humiliation, and be displayed like a prisoner to men? And stand bewildered with ridicule on my right, and sarcasm is offered to me on my left? Aa they see me in ropes entertained, and the Caesars used to be in my ropes, so unlike the kinds of my father and grandfather, and unlike their style are my uncle and uncle, I will go down without fear if death is felt in the fight, the life of humiliation is pushed away by death, come the serpent of the valley come, it is said that she placed the serpent on her chest at the time- like aa these thing made me love it and memorize it, ff from my youth, from my youth because I too my father may he rest in peace he brought me the full Shawqiyat collection, and I still have them.
The same edition?
Shawqiyat the original editi- how many books were in Shawqiyat? Ff ff not- framed and ready he brought it to me from Cairo, he said these are for Anisoh he didn’t say that I- Mama or Anisoh to to to.
Do you remember how old you were when you started reading poetry and the-?
Wallah from my youth the I told you from the time things were being imported to Kuwait and things fell into hands I started that means aa I was passionate for reading reading books they used to in school unlike now honestly, they would write give us reading lists and they would write a story in it, aa From aa The Exploits of the Arabs, poems about the explot- in the book for reading so w we grew up on on aa desert Bedouin Arab life in our schools it was nice I don’t know if now they do or don’t give them I have no idea I have no idea.
Aa alright aa we we’ll move from the subject of reading to another subject aa you mentioned that aa you used to go out of your neighborhoods on holidays aa I wanted to ask you like for example on these holidays and occasions what were the nature of them at that time when you were living in Jibla?
The holidays like with my mother we’d go to the market oh god the day we went to the market once it was once a week on Eid, no let me tell you about the time I memorized the Holy Quran it’s more important than Eid, in Kuwait before whoever memorized the Holy Quran they’d throw him a pa- like aa aa a ceremony, the bo- the boy and the girl when they memorized the Holy Quran I was very young honestly but not not making myself younger no I was young so I remember my mother may she rest in peace she’d sewn this aa scattered dress aa w with red glitter, but I had to wear gold with it, I didn’t have the the the gold this we didn’t have my mother this much but look there were at merchant houses in Kuwait a bucket of gold if you want the whoever was getting married this girl they would give her so she could wear from it, t something like that so they brought me this bucket of gold from aa this woman she was called may she rest in peace Wadha Albahar from Albahar family, she the bu- the whole bag to my mother ma’am Um Khaled, for the sist- my sister Um Khaled do you really just need a be- belt? No take take whatever you want from this bucket, of course it was trust so they put the be- on me aa aa she was an old woman so the the belt was big but they put it on me I don’t know how and they made it smaller and it fit like they made it, and they put the I had hair and she put- I put aa the Hamah this the one you see now and they put the surooh and tulool and other old Kuwaiti thi things, but what happened Mama Moza would carry me may she rest in peace, the one who raised us she carried me aa I had the wealth of the people on me, th they would show us off to like certain people, so me where did Mama Moza take me? To Sheikh Abdullah Aljaber may he rest in peace, small and ca carried and gilded, wallah I won’t forget this day for the rest of my life he gave ten thousand silver rupees, there are rupees that are made of aa nickel and there’s no the silver rupee that is the expensive one, he gave me ten thousand silver rupees of course he gave them to Mama Moza, and he said Anisoh, you’re going to beat your brothers Khaled and Abdulaziz why? I don’t know, so when the invasion happened wallah I hope it never happens again I wrote a journal and in that was this incident and I said when Sheikh Abdullah Aljaber told me I would beat my brothers Khaled and Abdulaziz, I did beat them and I said it to my brother Abdulaziz may he rest in peace, I beat them now, how many ambassadors? Khaled Jafar is an ambassador how many ambassadors? Abdulaziz Jafar is a deputy how many ministers? And how many assistant ministers and how many? I beat them all because I am Mama Anisa the only Mama without any arrogance.
[Almahmeed laughs].
There are so many incidents in my life that are hard to forget.
Do you remember how old you were wwhen they had this celebration for you?
Aa aa aa ma- in the Quran maybe I wasn’t even eight years nine years old I was young they were carrying me like I’m telling you, but how I was able to read in in verses of the Holy Quran And that was our proof which we gave Ibrahim against his people we raise whom we will in degrees- aa the verse is difficult, no one was able to memorize it, I was the only one who memorized it on the first go and Mutawa’a Sabika was very happy with me, and she said give her a round of applause, and she gave a something a sweet and that was from, because the how I was able to enunciate the verse so quickly and memorize it and aa I was able aa to repeat it, like I don’t know I now wonder if god almighty was so pleased with me at such a young age, thank god.
Aa alright do you remember how you felt then?
Wallah I don’t kn- like aa what do you think a child felt at tha- aa I consider like aa like aa but thank god he made me remember not to brag, I wasn’t taken by the flowers and the pride to the point where I was proud over others- no, I have and thank god the trait of humility since I was young, they used to con consider it cowardice and that I was foolish and ru- and at scho- she told me at school you’re half-dead how can you be like that because I was very polite how could you succeed when you’re half-dead like that, and how could you recite poetry and so at school, it’s a blessing from god.
Thank god, aa in the same period you mentioned that in the in Eid you’d go to the market, aa can you describe for example the nature of your trip to the market for example can you describe the market itself-
The abaya-
Yes.
The abaya we used to wear I didn’t wear the boshiya the abaya and my mother and and oh we were maybe thirteen women and children so, all of us on our own in Souq Almubarakiya at that time, I remember I bought there was aa there was a cologne called Revdor, there’s Soir de Paris, I bought- they bought me two bottles of cologne maybe, on the condition that I wouldn’t spray it on and walk outside our ho- only inside the house, like sniffing and not tasting like the [laughing] Lebanese would say, I mean what did we buy that was what was in the market (in the flea market), just that.
Mm, alright there-
The fab- excuse me the fabric my mother’s dresses may she rest in heaven she used to go to the market and buy from these fabrics, and sew and come on, we’d wear it we were living in luxury, can I tell- can I tell you about this one time?
Yes yes.
When a girl would reach a certain age we’re supposed to cover her up they used to say a girl co- cover up that girl with an abaya make her wear a boshiya, and I was covered up and Eid Aladha came, and Eid Aladha arri- it was raining, spectacular rain, and I was and honestly god forgive me for saying this I was a slave to the rain, I felt it was and I wrote this in my journal, rain was a cleanser for- I wish we would consider rain a cleanser of hearts I wish, where no prejudice and envy would remain in, my mother may she rest in peace she made me a green dress the color of gr- the color of grass, a beautiful green, covered up, a- and they combed my hair and braided it it was a bit thick and long and something, it bothered them com aa they combed me my mother Moza combed through it and put two ribbons in, and they put me in an Abaya and put me in a bosh- they let me stay in the house, I saw the rain we were in the yard, and the door leading ou- the st- the outside the long narrow hallway and the door there like now I could see it open, we began prancing around in the yard they told us no go back it’s raining, me I was a slave to the rain, I picked myself up I ra I ran from them and I went to the street door it was open and I went outside I to I threw the abaya I took out the the aa the ribbons that held my hair together I took out my braids and it was a mess but there was no problem I allowed the rain on my now dress and the rain and rain, my mom is searching looking where is Anisoh where is Anisoh Anisoh is outside covered call her in, Anisoh got the beating-
[Almahmeed laughs]-
My father may he rest in peace walked in that day, why Um Khaled why is Anisoh being beaten like this! She did this and this, he said alright alright the dress dr- dry it and the hair comb it aga- I mean he calmed it down and then when we were alone he said why my girl why did you do that? I said dad I like how could they cover me make me wear an abaya and- rain I love the rain god gave us rain good fortune, I didn’t know and the the ordeal was over [laughing].
Do you remember how old you were-?
This is a type of naughtiness this.
[Almahmeed laughs].
Young wallah young like they used to cover up from ten years eleven years twelve yea- not more than that they made us wear abaya boshiya, so I broke that tradition and got out [laughing].
[Almahmeed laughing] but the the when they covered you up the abaya you wore this out the house or not?
Outside the hou- no no in the house no no-
Yes-
Outside the house, outside the house.
Mm.
I by the way I kept on wearing the abaya, I was on television since sixty-one I would be unveiled and when I went to some family homes… even the house of the husband of aa aa uncle Jassim may he rest in peace aa he was the father of my mother-in-law may everyone rest in peace, an old aging Kuwaiti man, when I went and I would be on television when I visited him I would wear the abaya on my head, I kept going to work in the morning in the abaya and I was on TV at night, but the thi- aa because I was going back to our house my family’s aa my brothers in the abaya I stayed that way for a long time, I mean I didn’t break traditions thank god it was- aa like unveiled by circumstances like, travel actually I travelled for one or two years to London and I stayed a year and half like that so aa because of that I came back without without aa I mean without the abaya.
Alright ma’am aa in that same time period do you also remember if aa you made any certain friendships whether it was in the neighborhood or at the Motawa’a mm-?
Ooooh-
Yes.
So many of course my friends were as much as go- I one of my friends whom I consider more than a sister we’re still since Alqabaliya school days and she after where she beat me and went to university and went to Cairo and she’s Dalal daughter of Faisal Alzibin, the wife of the late Ahmad Mishari Aladwani may he rest in peace he was the deputy of the ministry of information for journalism and publishing and, aa, she was my very close friend like- and there were plenty of others I had many friends, many.
Ummm, alright ma’am anything you’d like to add- the time is right like is there time?
Aa after aa [whispering] ten minutes.
Ten minutes?
Yes yes.
Okay inshallah, aa what’s it called, did did you have any favorite hobbies at that time when you were living in Jibla in your childhood?
Aa look my favorite hobby is still reading, I say there are two things I never hated and will always love, reading and driving a car but now driving currently I can’t not when I’m at this age I can’t drive now especially when I have aaa may god protect you I have, chronic back pain and with growing older I ignored it I didn’t didn’t like I didn’t see to it, aa like what I remember I was maybe more than thirty years my back would hurt with growing older the years p passed passed aa until now like I walk and walk a considerable distance of course but I must if the distance was more then someone needs to help me at times I need a chair when I go out if for example we went to the avenue or we won’t like I’m not able to walk a long distance I must have aa my nieces they they’re always helpful either Sanaa or Suwair or Sahar mostly Suwair she would grab me and push me the one who talked to me her husband now Saad Jafar, aa pu aa pu like I must be pushed I can’t walk I love seeing anything they are al always helpful they would take me.
Aa alright and on the topic of this time also the time you were living in Jibla aa are there any certain memories you would like to share with us aa?
In when like which time for example?
Aa in your childhood in Jibla.
All in my childhood?
Yes.
Wallah-
Or anything you’d like to talk about that I didn’t ask you about-
Wallah I don’t don’t like I don’t know life has I don’t like, has many hurdles [laughing] aa it has like mm aa I don’t know, I don’t don’t like dd, like I remember my love for like I travel a lot I traveled from America to like Asia and Europe aa [incomp] like aa tell me the prettiest country and not the prettiest, the country that captivated me from when I was young my father may he rest in peace Anisoh where would you like to go? I told him I want to go to India I want to go to Italy I want to go to aa aa Egypt, why? I told him these are countries with civilization, god allowed me to go to Egypt more than once and Italy more than once, and Japan I went twice, aa, tell me where every country has its nature, but Japan was completely different.
You visited those when you were a child or later?
No no aa when I was older, when I was youn- aa and I was really young I used to go to Basra and Baghdad only, anywhere else I didn’t-
Do you remember your visits to Basra and Baghdad?
Yes of course when I was young I remember the first time we went to Basra my father may he rest in peace took us to li- live- living in a house, like imagine you from, from a country without any greenery or- like Kuwait so aa aa we’d go to into the grape cu- cubicles I remember the first thing I did was climb over the aa this the the like the barrier they put up and I was going to cut that and I fell [laughing] from the eagerness to to, yes I want to tell you about the time, Sheikh Abdullah aa Sheikh Jaber Alali may he rest in peace all we had was black and white television, so what did he do, he would tell me when you do your program put put Arfaj, dry, and and bring we’d bring water and pour it on that like the water was coming of course we didn’t didn’t have like the technology would do and what was obvious was aa the the tree that arfaj was in the ground the water was coming from the pipe, as if we had greenery never say we don’t have any greenery [laughing]-
[Almahmeed laughs]-
So we’d show on our television that we have greenery.
Aa bless you ma’am if you’d like we can stop for now-
Yes please if inshallah-
Inshallah of course anything you want-
Leave the rest for another time-
Inshallah let me stop it.
Another time.
Aa I’m Abdulaziz Almahmeed and today aa we’re doing the second part aa of the interview with Mama Anisa in her house that’s located in Almansouriya area, aa today is Wednesday the date it the first of December twenty twenty-one the time is currently approximately aa nine and-
Quarter to ten-
Yes quarter to ten-
[Mama Anisa laughs]-
Nine and forty-seven minutes maybe, aa in the morning, umm ma’am can you give us your verbal consent in- to record the interview?
Go ahead go ahead at your service-
Thank you, aa considering that we aa have limited time we might need to limit the interview to certain topics and specific questions-
Inshallah go ahead yes no problem-
Thank you, aa to summarize what we did last time we talked about your childhood, aa in the hill in Jibla aa aand you going to aa Almotawa’a aa to study- study Quran mostly, uum aand your house in Jibla and aa like memories of your childhood-
Yes yes-
And the games you used to play-
Yes yes.
Aa ma’am I would like to ask you about your career in education-
Yes-
Aa do you remember after aa after the Motawa’a where you went aa to study?
[Mama Anisa clears her throat] aa the thing is when organized teaching systems began I like I didn’t go in at the first year aa I was still young in the Motawa’a the year after the second immediately I joined thee educational schools like the education, the education at that time aa preliminary aand but I didn’t go into preliminary because wa aa my knowledge of the Holy Quran at the Motawa’a helped me they immediately put me in primary school, I finished primary and middle and aa the in I took the degree it was called the female education degree, at that time.
Yes, but question the-
Yes yes-
The primary stage at what year did you get into it?
Wallah l l I don’t like the second yeal- s second year once organized education system started in Kuwait.
Yes, umm-
I don’t know which year by the way.
Do you remember how old you were?
Young-
Yes.
Young young like mm, a child happy to go to school with a big group of young students and ones a bit older aa we’d meet with teachers from like from Iraq from Lebanon, like aa it was something strange and nice at the same time, aaa you’d create a group of friendships aa you’d be amazed by great things aa en aa you’d be encouraged to read something I was already greatly passionate about, s so it was like aa something great.
Aa do you remember the name of the school?
Alqabaliya primary school for girl- school it was Ahmad Alkhamees primary school for girls, in Jibla as well, the now late Ahmad Alkhamees may he rest in peace, it was Ahmad Alkhamees school that was what was written on it I remember.
Yes aa can you describe to me aa the shape of the school building?
Yes the the school building was an old Kuwaiti house one of the single floor houses, a single floor the classes aa the teachers’ rooms and the the prin- the principle’s room and like, it was a lot like our house in how it was or organized, the house we lived in but aa aa like aa it h had aa like there were connectors between the- aa the rooms, from classes I mean, yards we’d call it liwan, and rooms, a line two lines three and four.
Aa do you remember the subjects you used to study?
Wallah look wh when I remember it I’m proud of it in what way? In that we learned the basis of the Arabic language, alongside the Holy Quran and math and subjects they used to call composition subjects, and the teaching of handwriting aa I don’t know now it’s different, li according to education I mean we le learned things at that time were v aa very useful to us you learn how to write calligraphy you’d excel in that and get a good grade, composition which was aa when you like write something like a story, you’re gi gi given for example a word, aa I still remember it now aa, like they gave us for example the word head, head, aa maybe you’d say like you the head of the chicken for example is small like the head of the hors- like, aa at that time and despite how young I was I thought I what did it mean aa do I bring an animal head? It dd didn’t fill my head like it d d didn’tt aa so I aa like I rr read some beautiful sentences when my father may he rest in peace used to s say it to or m anyway so I said why don’t I write let them give me a zero I don’t need the full mark what’s important is that I satisfy aa what’s in my mind, so I went and wrote aa the meaning of head, the head of wisdom is the fear of good, at that time when I was young, so when they took aa to correct they gave us marks on the in our notebooks, aa I was so surprised to find that instead of a zero I got a huge round of applause in the school assembly, in that where did you get this idea when you’re this young? You write this po powerful sentence, the head of wisdom is the fear of god come on explain give us the meaning I was able to give it and make them understand the meaning so these were the things that ha happened to me when I was young and that I still remember.
Yes aa ma’am you mentioned that you had teachers from Iraq and Lebanon-
Yes yes.
Do you remember if you had teachers from other countries?
In the in the first year they were Lebanese and Iraqi there weren’t others, the first year I don’t remember aa like I remember one of them by name her name was Ghaniya, Iraqi I used to love the way she styled her hair and so so always her hair aa I used to grab my hair like hers I would hold it between my hands it was long and make i- aa tried to twist it li the way she did it, I remember her clearly, and then came the mm in the first year I remember them Iraqis and Lebanese I don’t remember Palestinians Wallah the first year, like I can’t remember they might’ve been there maybe.
Yes aa why do you remember this teacher in particular?
I loved the way her hair was-
Yes-
Her hair aa was nice and soft it was different than my hair her hair had some blonde in it it was blonde, and soft my hair was like thick aaand aa tangled in aa she used to twis- like she had her own way in curling her hair I used to put my hand in my hair and twirl aa I used to be so happy when it started looking like this teacher’s hair [laughing] the teacher.
Aa do you remember for example certain memories in this school or stories or activities you used to do?
Wallah I mean in they taught us the way to aah, aa a ty- type of the the glass, they’d make with it aa aa containers until now I didn’t see any container made out of glass done that way d didn- aa handmade, aa I don’t know from where they got like in Kuwait at that time those things were available aa a type of glass ff floral a and pressed and you’d make a box with it a and aa- and the container we’d take it we’d invest in it we’d put in it aa containers tha that we’d sew the things that we sew with like we’d keep in it things that were for us as girls, those were one of the things that still at tha- I mean in my memory I remember it.
You used to do that in one of your classes?
In our classes and the classes of our seniors.
Yes.
But we’d be happy lik we’d peek at them watch them.
Aa do you remember certain friendships you had like in aa this school?
Wallah plenty plenty but where are they now I don’t even remember their names.
Yes.
I remember their names but may they rest in peace they’re now gone they’ve left me like they’re not not here.
Aa this Qabaliya school aa-
Aaa Ahmad Alkhamis for girls.
This Ahmad Alkhamis for girls-
Yes-
Primary stage.
Primar- I mean we stayed in it for two years- later aa we were transf- transferred the school was shut down actually, and they took us to Alqabaliya School for Girls the house Ahmad Alsayed Khalaf Alnaqib, in the what is now aa it was the place of aa the Credit Bank the the it’s now the Central Bank but it was- it used there was wasn’t like aa in its place now aaa where aa like I can’t descr- aa like tell you exactly where but farther from this school that we were in.
Aaa-
We moved to a bigger primary school and it had a middle and had a high school.
Yes, you completed your middle and high school studies in it?
Yes yes I didn’t complete high school-
Yes-
I didn’t complete high school I had a Female Education Degree-
Yes-
Yes it was between high school and between the like mm, like it’s equivalent to middle school- I aa Abdulaziz I didn’t seek higher education unfortunately I’m not saying this wallah because I didn’t aa aa I take it back I’m not sorry that I didn’t seek higher education because I and thank god for that as I told you before I educated myself by myself I worked hard on myself through read- like it wasn’t important for me to go into a certain major, just that and then get a higher degree in it no I majored in aa a subject that I consider greater than any other which is the Arabic language I educated myself completely in reading in aa whether it was in the the, reading like the aa the Arabic language basically, and in any subject that I was able to read able to read in this language.
Aa alright aa Alnaqib house aa do you remember-
The house of aa Mr. Khalaf.
Yes, yes Mr. Khalaf Alnaqib-
Mm-
Aa can you describe to me this house that was a school?
Yes in aa it was different actually first of all it was two floors, two floors and then it had two doors a door in a narrow small alley for aa and in aand aa high stairs, and it had a door on the main street aa from the other side, big- like the school was big, there w was aa like there I even when I finished studying I worked as a teacher in it, like the the the class I used to study in when I was young young aah I became a teacher in and for girls who were older than me because there was no other way, for me aa like aa, there was no other educational option I mean the educational level ended for this level I finished it, I either stayed at home, or there wasn’t anything else for me, here aa like aa Iqbal Alhabbal encouraged me she’s the wife of may he rest in peace may he rest in peace the wife of Sir Abdullatif Alshamlan he was in in the Education Council in front of me like she made me work as a teacher, so I remember my mother telling her Anisoh working as a teacher? How, the girls are older than her miss Iqbal, she said to her no problem, what’s important is that she doesn’t stay home it would do her good f f from even from the ways of teaching, and actually like there was encouragement from my family there was encouragement from from those who you work with from from people you’ve seen family friendships my mother’s friendships like it was nice.
Aa alright when you were a student in this school aa do you remember the teachers that were there?
Yees, aa when I was a student or a teacher?
When you were a student.
No no a student it wasn’t- I didn’t stay for a long time-
Yes-
Aa we transferred nn not the same teachers the Iraqi teachers, and Lebanese no no aa it changed, ss I remember we were our teachers in forty-four an older teacher- the educator the teacher, and more from a Palestinian nationality, and aa Egyptian, like I remember teach- the teachers that taught us the the sewing, and aa math aa were Egyptian teachers, I remember and us miss Fathiya her name was and Zainab those were the ones I remember from the teachers and aah aa Mariam like there wa- there were a lot of Arab nationalities, between aa here Pal- Palestinians like aa more came to Kuwait in forty-eight, so the percentage of th the Ar- the Palestinian teachers was great and honestly they gave us from their own lives the thing that plenty of us like used us youth that was our opportunity aa it was nice that we learned on the hands of those na, nationalities that like came to us wi with aa things they were ahead of us with, we and thank god now are ahead of this right? [laughing].
[Almahmeed laughs] Do you remember for example the nature of studying the subjects you used to study in this school?
Yes the same subjects Arabic language math aa aaa composition calligraphy the same same subjects in another way another way like a more advanced way unlike how we started when [whispering] [inaud].
Yes aa how many years did you stay in this school as a student?
Wallahi Alqabaliya I spent- I spent my entire life in it-
Yes-
Like aa student and teacher-
Yes-
And even when I became a teacher tt teacher I became o of Arabic language and the Holy Quran-
Yes-
Mm.
Aa alright you told me that aa you aa got a degree for teaching in Female Education?
Yes yes.
Yes aa wh- where did you study for you to get this degree?
In Kuwait-
Yes yes-
In the school-
The same school?
There wa- wasn’t a degree called a degree in Female Education like it was an equivalent to a middle school diploma approximately.
Aa can you tell me about-
Like they blessed us with it-
Yes-
They blessed us with it on the basis that we’re like aa Kuwaiti girls no just me like every person my age and older or aa like aa we earned this degree after that it was mod modernized like what aa what the high school did whoever wanted to con continue onto high school whoever want- aa they took them on a scholarship to Egypt, they went to to Cairo mm aa my opportunity aa to go to Cairo and major in Arabic language studies was an intangible hope because my mother wouldn’t say yes to me leaving Kuwait even though my father may he rest in peace didn’t mind, but my mother no Anisoh leaving it can’t happen, so that’s how I became a teacher, aand thank god you know.
Yes but a question was there a specific curriculum you had to go through to take this degree or was there some-?
Yes f from studying the the the the the subjects we had.
Yes.
Or- aa oral and written exam.
Yes, aa do you remember how old you were when you got this degree?
Wallah maybe maybe thirteen years thirteen years thirteen years, because I immediately worked as a teacher I-
So you-
Immediately-
When you worked as a teacher how old were you-?
A at this age this-
Yes-
I remember I we were like in the class we’d joke and play around more than study-
Yes-
Young we were young we were young Kuwaiti girls.
Yes, aa and what we- what did you mean when you said that the students were older than you when you were a teacher?
Aa because I [incomp] work as a teacher, a teacher for who? Not for kids, for adults who want to continue studying they go to to a higher c class for example, so I ha- had to be a teacher, and I like with my knowledge of the the Holy Quran and Arabic language I had proven my position in it and when I remember when they c came came to us Egyptian in aa inspectors they were, he would come visit the school to inspect the teachers and the classes and every, when I knew that an inspector was present in the principal’s office the school principal, I aa aa my voice was louder a bit I read the Holy Quran like I would help the students memorize the ver- the the small children and the clas- the class that I taught aa that I helped memorize that I recited the Qur- the verses in a loud voice to so they would be fascinated with the the aa truly that were pl pleased with me in that way, a life had passed it’s strange that I remember these things wallah-
[Almahmeed laughs].
Strange.
Aa and how many years did you stay a teacher in?
Wallah I stayed a teacher a t teacher from forty-six to aa nineteen sixty… and in the same school, I only left it for one year because I moved I m aa like in my life to Alshamiya area there was a school there called Asmaa Bint Abi Bakir I transferred there for a year, I couldn’t I moved back to my original home to Alqabaliya School for- for Girls, and I stayed there until nineteen sixty, and I went to London in aa like a companion to aa a scholarship essentially I used to call it I stayed there a year and a half and I came back also a teacher at the same school until the year sixty-two aand Kuwait Television launched I worked there in the year sixty-one and then aa I left teaching and I became like aa a head of department in the ministry of education and I hosted children’s’ shows in Kuwait television-
Yes, aa alright can you tell me about your visit to London and your experience there?
Ohh aa no like aa look, aa I left Kuwait aa travelled Europe in fifty-seven, not just London, like I took a tour in Europe approximately all Western Europe, like aa mm I mean let me tell you fromm Asia between in Turkey Asia and Europe to Greece to Italy to Germany to Austria to aaa aa France to Switzerland to London to ah I mean I toured the entirety of Europe fifty-seven approximately three months, a vacation something like wher like not studying-
Ah-
But I was in this tour in these countries I was searching always searching for aa things museums like visi- visiting the places that aa I read about in my life, like I read aa about a story when I visit a museum in Greece I see the stor- that same story like my life was I mean honestly aa I dd I don’t mean to be arrogant in that way no wallah I was very proud in my trips at this age and how much I learned from from from this life.
Aa were there any specific places from the ones you visited for example aa that have a special meaning like in your memory-?
Wallah maybe I remember I told you that my father may he rest- rest in peace he used to tell me where do you like want to see I told him I wish I could see Cairo Egypt and the sort I told him the Egypt and India and aa Italy because they had actual civilizations, and Greece has an ancient civilization, so I remember that I and I there was one time in London I went to see a movie or mo- no wallah on Kuwait television I saw this movie aa, I even remember it had Sophia Loren, aa as they s- aa a story of aa a small natural statue statue, and the story revolved around that statue, so when I went to Greece, when I went to the museu- the the aa the aa the what do they call them? No not the acropo- aa acropolis them? I think the the the the aaaaa he the like the museum of ruins, when I stepped into the museum I found a picture of that aaa child the statue was there in the- any person who listens to this conversation and goes to Greece and will go to Greece will fi I don’t think it will change the entrance aa the museum this sta statue, the small the one I read- I was the happiest because oh wow this is the story I read when I was young I came across it now and I saw it in the cinema I see it in real life it was something so no the in Italy aa, the Vatican, I heard so much about it, and I read so much about it, I go to Italy, I visit the Vatican, I went to the sain- aa St. Peter’s Church, I look up and I see the marvel of god almighty when he gave the inspiration to the artist- it was aa before when the chu- the church was p painted- in this spectacular way aa there weren’t scaffolds or forklifts or, they used to tie a rope around him I don’t know how how he was able aa the artist to illustrate aa the the aa that I mean Michael Angelo how aa he illustrated this the like this aa things were beautiful Cairo when I went to Egypt and the pyramids I was adamant on going inside the pyramid, and I went in a little bit because the more you walked in aa you had to aa be hunched over the the the aa b but being young en encouraged you to walk into these places and see them.
Aa these visits were all in the period of three months that you’ve told me about?
Those were- yes yes ye- that was aa my first visit.
Yes.
The first visits- after that I visited many times you know time and time aa-
Yes, aa alright aa can you tell me about the scholarship you received to Britain?
Yes yes aa that was aa l look more aa it was a year two years the first scholarship aaa before I became Mama Anisa, like in i before aa aaa so it was an opportunity for me to even get to know television in a more intimate way because for a long time I lived in this country and then I mean to aa other places, because of the circumstances I lived in not just in London, places I don’t think anyone has ever went and why would they go until now yes, I mean I went to Leeds industrial towns Birmingham I went to Manchester I went to Liverpool I went to Brighton I went aa to the aa the one between like the one you’re in what’s its name the the one on the coastline you’d see aa aaaa the aa between every- like aa the one where you can see them cross the Manche (English Channel), swimming they get medals in it the Manche between the the Manche sea between Britain and France what’s that that cit- called I forgot it wallah I forgot it’s been a looong time since that ooh from sixty now it’s twenty twenty-one and I’m telling you about thi thi there’s not much left until twenty-two [laughing].
Yes-
So it’s nice when you live through something why do I now encourage people to re- to read? I encourage young people, no matter how much you study and no matter what you see, and no matter what you hear if you don’t live through it, read it and not see it on television and or in a cinema you experience it- like I remember now when aa why do I care about Shakespeare? Why would I care about Shakespeare’s wife Anne Hathaway? I was so proud to have visited Stratford the town that’s Shakespeare’s hometown and just my luck at that time there was an entire month of daily plays, Shakespeare’s and they were showing in this town that his hometown because I think it was his birthday or a significant date for him, and I bought me a piece of canvas they called canvas something now I couldn’t grab now aaa and I made it into an entire piece I work- I worked on it I finished it in eighteen days-
Mashallah-
No one would believe it, now when I do it it takes eight eight years, wallah in eighteen days, the piece was called Anne Hathaway’s Cottage, Anne Hathaway was Shakespeare’s wife and the cottage is what we in our Kuwaiti dialect would call Kubbar-
Mm.
Alkubbar it’s the s aa like do you know what Kubbar means?
It’s like a cottage?
Cottage.
Yes yes.
You got there better than I did yeah-
Yes [laughing] no-
The cottage that- aa aa the the aa Anne Hathaway’s Cottage the one that the the the Kubbar that Anne Hathaway Shakespeare’s wife lived in and I bought it and le- aa they still sell them until now like for the aa the people who like sewing the the canvas and such can buy it it’s pieces you find pieces and you make a painting out of it it would be your pride and joy for your entire life I don’t know where it is now that’s too bad-
[Almahmeed laughs].
So aa the thi- I was telling you like aa aa it’s a beautiful feeling when you’ve aa heard about something you’ve read about it and see it in in in the television and you see it in the cinema and you see it in real life it’s better of course, you’d feel pride that you wallah you’ve been to this place you’d seize the opportunity to go to these places if- like Bristol as a British aa city from the British cities has aa beautiful places the Italian countryside is incomparable the British countryside was a magnificent the the castles Windsor castle like castle aa all these places honestly I’ve visited, I visited them and I’m very proud I did because I read about them, so my brain was full of like the beautiful history of these countries-
Amazing, aa b question like aa all these places what was the reason behind visiting these British cities in a time that maybe-
Wallah I wa-
Yes-
Like aa honestly I was in accompa- like aaa I was in a situation where I was like at at that time like in my private life like aa I seized opportunity I these places in like, what can I tell you I don’t want to mention this thing but I must I mean I was committed to like someone in life with a person aand aa the trip essentially was because he was studying I aa how am I going to spend my time? Visiting these things.
Aa alright aa do you remember the Shakespeare plays you’ve seen?
Ooh I w won’t forget Hamlet, like Shakespeare plays! Who who doesn’t wwho doesn’t love seeing them or who doesn’t remember? Aa I went to the aa Cleopatra play I went to the actual play from Elizabeth Taylor and Mark- who was her husband? An- aa Mark Anton or I don’t know wallah the the one who loved her deeply loved Elizabeth and married her he was the aa thea aa theatre too, m maybe you can help me who was he?
Yes I don’t know aa-
The the one who actually loved her, I remember her in person I even saw her on stage in Birmingham the play I used to say I I didn’t see her as Elizabeth Taylor whenever I closed my eyes I remember that she’s Cleopatra-
Yes-
Actually Cleopatra.
Wonderful.
And his aa name aa was Antony or I mean mm unfortunately I can’t recall his name now, but I remember the epic love story between them in in real life like-
Yes-
Between Elizabeth Taylor and her husband tha that aa that was her fourth husband I think or something, so mm aa those stories were aa nice the the, the li- the the life the things the li- like the- the the movies I saw in my life now when I talk to our girls and boys with the young li like you and your peers something like that aa I tell them Spartacus, the siege of Troy that’s history, aa now I don’t think anyone has the passion anymore, no one has the passion-
Mm.
Or llii aa instead of reading re- uum a book instead of sitting down to watch a three four hour movie War and Peace, the I mean aa like mm I mean he wouldn’t waste his time on something like that I think-
Yes-
He has more important things in life the natu- the nature of the situations the nature of aa life like the rule of technology that came out to make life for humans easie- how it changed these life difficulties, we used to que- I remember in fifty-seven we’d queue in Leister City the city in London in the center of London, we’d queue so we’d be able to get into the movie and then it’s continuous the movie it like it ke keeps playing you would walk in and you’d catch the end of the movie and you’d watch and the movie would start again-
Ah.
A life that even in its joys was difficult but it was nice, I don’t remember anything in my life except, if you’d excuse me, since as long as I could remember until this moment that I’m living right now every day of my life had its beauty from god almighty, I mean even when I say that the day I had wasn’t good despite the reason I would be thankless to to the greatness of god almighty, no wallah, god gave us a life that we must seize by thanking and praying to god almighty every day like this morning if you’d excuse me-
Yes yes-
If I have it aa aaa in my phone like in the mobile I aa I remember I read something I want the entire world inshallah but aa let me find it, I want the entire world aa to listen to these words or aaa I I mean, let me look.
Go ahead.
No I don don’t have it with me now, like the the aa the gist of the story was that if you get good news or if it’s something you considered a hardship, oor like any tiresome situation in your life you must thank god almighty in every in every moment aa say oh god thank you you’ve aa blessed me and protected me and aa made me wealthy and by thanking god in every moment god will double your joy so I in every day of my life Abdulaziz since the day I came to be until this moment every day of my life I’ve thanked god almighty for everything he gave me from blessings in this life, even the blessing of me going and visiting even the cemeteries, the churches, the going to any country fin- aa European I have to go to the church I see their churches how I see how aa they worship in their religions, every human has the right to live the life he came to know, or- in the end thank god almighty aa that he made us Muslims , and created for us aa like wha I was saying when I thank god or thank you god you blessed us with a beginning with the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him, and these are not my own words the beginning was from the poem by the aa late Ahmad Shawqi.
Yes, aa alright these visits for for example aa different cc cities aand-
Yes-
Aa plays museums churches cemeteries-
Yes-
Wh what did that add to you as a person?
What do you thinthin? Don’t you think there’s this vast knowledge? Wi aa wi-widen your horizons making yourself think about things that in the end would go back to the almighty creator, you don’t just p play in this life, aa the in the in the excuse excuse my language aa in this silliness that’s in it, because life has aa there are a lot of things it’s not this life the human makes it trivial and follows it and use it, no oo our right in this life from god almighty who’d given it to us so we could seize it in a good way and seize it in a way that brings us closer in the end to god almighty, or am I wrong? [laughing].
You’re right, ma’am, yes you’re right, alright a question aa aa what year did you go back to Kuwait from Britain? Aand If ther-
Yeah aa-
Yes-
I travelled inn aa this trip the one aa with the the aa the ye- the year and a half approximately I travelled in aa maybe the fourth month, aa and the fifth and sixth and it came aa aa to the sixth of the month- aa the year after-
From which year-?
Yes the eighth month of the following year-
Yes which year was this?
From the year aa fifty-nine to aa sixty to sixty-
Yes-
Sixty-one yes the beginning of sixty-one.
Yes yes, aa alright can you tell us of how you got into the ministry of information? And how you became Mama Anisa?
Mm, wallah was also also fate and god almighty’s kind plan for Mama Anisa to become Mama Anisa I mean here and excuse me this isn’t bragging it’s actually pride and appreciation of every moment I say Amina Alayoubi may she rest in peace and may Mohammed Jafar rest in peace that I am their daughter, who who thank god it’s sai- it’s said that nothing is agreed upon in Kuwait except the love for Mama Anisa, I don’t do you thi- if that’s what you think or-
Of course yes yes-
Thank god-
Thank god-
Like I came to them a teacher I went back to my initial occupation a teacher the one I left behind when I travelled, and I am a teacher I don’t want to impose on you and mention someone and someone else and no-
O on the contrary yes yes-
I wouldn’t force you no like I Mama Anisa was chosen to be Mama Anisa.
Yes.
By what I’ve seen on television in Europe and especially in London for more than a year I’ve watched their television in every moment and in every minute, except that aa facing people through television, that would perhaps be a tragedy to befall anyone because I was the first Kuwaiti face by the way that you would hear tell you to tell them no-
[Almahmeed laughs].
Mama Anisa is the first face for Kuwaiti females on Kuwait National Television, and for children’s programs aa so aaa, marvel at this I’m not timid in in front of the camera because until this moment I don’t feel like I’m talking and aa I want people to see like at that time I didn’t want people to see a nice beautiful aand and young woman and no no, that wasn’t the point, the point was that as long as it was for children I had to be up to the task I had to be there for this child that I once was and had never seen such a thing, so thank god, thank god, there was a lot of bumps on the road and in it were aa undoubtedly ff from sixty-one and until twenty-one and now going on twenty-two aa life wasn’t aa it passed by smoothly it had its r rocky moments and had its aa bitterness and toughness and coarseness and I as Mama Anisa and god forgive me for saying I all the time all of that I put that aside when I was in front of the camera and in front of the people I wasn’t their daughter their sister I was their mother, aa like it was nice I loved being motherly being motherly in that way people as asked god for one child and god gave me-
[Almahmeed laughs]-
Millions thank god-
Yes-
Not just aa like any person that was living in Kuwait when I travelled to Cairo or travelled to Lebanon or tra travelled to Syria in aa the the aaa the people used to welcome Mama Anisa, like they knew her there were plenty of people that now tell me that there were- there aa fr om in aa a while back aaa I was in one of the restaurant I was invited to lunch, so aaa the owner of the restaurant what she did wasn’t done by any other person why? Because her mother was with me on telev- in the program-
Yes-
Like the aa aa believe me Abdulaziz coming to terms with who you are as a person makes your life aa a bit sweeter for you to live it… by the way you the American Univ- like you now and who you represent I could be arrogant if I said you were lucky that I gave you all these information about my life?
No of- of course we’re like ma’am aa I wish we’d have more sessions like-
[Mama Anisa laughs]-
This is not enough [laughing]-
No more more no [laughing]-
Yes.
What else would like to hea-?
Yes aaa we’re going to bother you with the questions aa like when you came back from Britain aa aa you came back to teaching, but my question is what made you go to the ministry of information?
I told you they chose Mama Anisa to be like in aa aaa the thing I mean I remember that my brothers brother Abdulkarim may he re- like thi this I’ve already said this I don’t like to aa-
Yes but what I mean like they already were thinking about making a children’s program?
A children’s program.
Ah aand-
So-
They were looking for like-
Aa aa-
Yes-
They dd didn’t look they thought the program would be Anisa’s children’s program.
Yes.
So Mama Anisa came-
Yes
What are we going to call it? We’ll call it Mama Anisa.
Yes.
So now when they do any children’s program until this moment they don’t call it children’s program they call it Mama Anisa’s program.
Yes yes.
I’m telling you aa aa a person aa every person is happy w with what they get of riches, I was rich in someth- in in the material I was rich I was rich with in this aa this life that I’m living.
Yes-
The life where I’m Mama Anisa.
But do you remember how you were chosen?
Aa yes I wouldn’t want to like I wouldn’t want to say like-
Yes yes-
It wasn’t like not aa I told you I aa my broth- aa my brother spoke to- like they spoke to peo- aa I offered it to my brother the top- my brothers aaa one of them refused while the others didn’t mind the most important part was the head of the house the father my father said I like since my father was a traveler and had seen-
Mm.
Aa yallah let her be Ma, in aa and I used to sit with him may he rest in peace he would say to me tel in television in Cai- Egypt so and so would go on screen with big hair she would come on sleeveless as if they were indirectly telling me Anisa don’t do this-
Mm-
So and so would go on screen modest so and so shows her face like and you know for me the youth there wasn’t- the program was black and white like the television and the youth they didn’t need- make-up and stuff and the hair and that was normal and until this moment Mama Anisa didn’t care like now I’m being interviewed now as the usual Mama Anisa look, where there wasn’t even a bit of lipstick or eyeliner or [laughing]-
Yes [laughing]-
The most important part is that I’m um aa-
Yes-
Aa I’m a mother- like, in all instances in my life if you watch Kuwait television- now even the old programs aa you’d see that Mama Anisa is still the same old Mama Anisa nothing about her has changed.
Mm, aa do you rem- alright-
Because it’s and excuse me for this, like I wasn’t too keen on being called beautiful because I knew knew how beautiful I was how I knew myself because I be because I am pretty honestly like I’m a normal Kuwaiti person average just like everyone aand aa and I always used to heea like aa I remember the poet saying beauty wasn’t in what we adorn ourselves with but rather beauty was the beauty of propriety and manners, mm mm like I don’t care if I was if they say oh wow she’s so pretty, aa why would I care about beauty it’s just a life that will end there will come a day where it'll end, I care aa the how giving it was, thank god everyone is satisfied with the way I spoke and and the the words I choose and I and god knows I don’t think twenty times before I say something, I just say in that moment knowing god almighty aa gave me the ability to say this sentence and this word for the sake of my family and my people the people of Kuwait whom I’m very indebted to them with great gratitude I always say that the people of Kuwait gave me not just the love, the love isn’t important they’ve given me respect and blanketed me in it head to toe.
Yes, alright ma’am-
And that’s the most important thing.
Yes.
In that you become a person in your community a respected and loved person not loved and respected, respect breeds love, love doesn’t bree- so much so much love had no respect not even a drop of it but there’s respect, respect has given whoever is worthy this degree of love, if I’m wrong you’re free to correct me.
No no you’re right ma’am [laughing] aa alright ma’am do you remember when you began working in television in hosting the Mama Anisa program do you remem-
Yes-
Do you remember what were the echoes of the program with the audience with the people?
Wallahi, the echoes were from the first night we were on air by the way for a year and a half the the the program wasn’t being recorded.
Mm.
There wasn’t there wasn’t any recording, like the times that passed and like now the CD they give you when you’re recording the epi- the material you take it and leave with it no, we were on air-
Mm.
But aa, from the first night I was on ai- the program was on from seven to eight, from the first night I was on air and I went back to my father’s house may he rest in peace to see what his reaction was, so I found my mother in a state of dread in that I don’t know what my father would think, I found him encouraging and he told me god bless you for this, because when I went on air Subhanallah I knew what to wear, I was wearing something closed I was wearing someth aa mm like modest, aa what did I say on air god knows like something for the children like from the first day aa encouragement another day from the people and I carried on and unt- until this moment sometimes when people talk to me those people are of course younger than me and of my age no wallah there weren’t a lot of my age like I’m old I’m not young, aa everyone tells me like their words aaa it gives you, aaa things I feel through television- phones aa like something rich I was given- a person would give to you, thank god-
Uhmm.
Thank god mm.
Yes aa alright do you remember what was- aa what those programs aa in that time were about?
Wallah look, at that time and even until now with the change of the the the the aaa technology and such, to me it’s not any dif- like, it’s not any different or it’s not aa it’s when I give the thing that I want to god almighty help us with what we do, we give to to to our country, the thing in abundance, aa l like certain values that we deal with until the end of time honesty fidelity and respecting your parents and compassion to the younger and old- all these values aaa aa not lying loyalty the- the- like all these values we deal with in all our lives mm no matter how different, it’s the same you deal with it, of course it came to us- even the technology shouldn’t steer away from this field.
Mm.
Even technology we use it like, difference the aa the conflict forgetting others’ rights I withhold your rights you in that you have you this thing like, excuse me yesterdayyy, aa I went to the dentist to do a teeth cleaning operation, so I can’t walk like I used in my age so I have a wheelchair aa in in aa, I had my niece aa she took a leave god bless her to carry the chair that I was I couldn’t, to the car so she could park the car there wasn’t any empty spaces because the handicap space and we had on this car a signal for handicaps, two jeeps men aa aa they’re I don’t know aa aa jeep two jeeps two cars parked in in the the aah the spot, I aa in the aa coffee or the veranda in front two people were drinking tea and even smoking.
Mm.
All I did was how did I know it was their car? I took from the driver that was with us I told him give me a pen and paper, I wrote you’re extremely rude I don’t know who they were, but I had a feeling those were the ones sitting there, like was it really that hard to park anywhere else so you’d sit there and drink tea? In a spot where a disabled person wouldn’t even be able to get out wouldn’t would be able- I I can walk thank god on my feet but for a long distance I can’t can’t can’t walk, it has to be on a wheelchair and they need to push me I’m not able, truly I in addition to my age now I have back pain and the people of Kuwait all know from forty years that back pain gets worse each year aa the pain, and then someone comes, can’t can’t do it he has to aa park in this place, was there no other place for you to just sit at a coffee shop and drink tea and your jeep takes that place- these these things I don’t talk about, and today I insist on talking about it with aaa the lovely host Talal Alyagout Kuwait Television for the Kuwait Nights he wants to talk about it.
Yes, wonderful.
Like, aa what is what can you offer people on television? Let’s say Kuwait television, what will you offer them? A dance and a song? And words aa aa appeals to two three percent of society? No, offer what is useful to people they love you from what you offer it goes b back to you whether a child or an adult with benefit it doesn’t go back to you in enj- enjoyment for a fleeting moment and then you forget about it, so this program the Mama Anisa l like they say aa I suppose in my opinion what I offer has aa enjoyment even the word that’s been said has enjoyment for the peoplle, on that basis people loved Mama Anisa-
Mm-
Or else why would they love Mama Anisa? As the poet said you have no horses to gift nor money, so let your speech be jolly if you do not make the situation jolly.
Yes.
What do they want from Mama Anisa? Millions so she could offer to them or aa aa ll like they said like you give from- no not mm a simply normal human being aa wallah thank god I live with what satisfies god almighty and with what god almighty has given me.
Aa alright ma’am aside from hosting the Mama Anisa show aa did you work other jobs or other gigs in the ministry of information at that time?
No I was just a teacher.
Yes yes.
Yes but jobs- in television hosting shows and they would have me, adding Mama Anisa she was a g guest in shows they would say wallah the show was aa trending and it was known aa like that Mama Anisa was popular but me hosting other shows other than children’s shows aa-
Mm-
It’s enough even at this age I can host but I can only by talking to children, and now I’m not talking to children by the way, I’m talking to adults aa about what’s useful to children.
Mm.
Is it over or not? [laughing].
No no in- of cou- certainly it’s not over [laughing] aa are there any other things you’d like to mention about your career as Mama Anisa on television?
No wallah there isn’t any- alrig- you can put down what you like.
Yes yes.
Whatever you see fit.
Yes, aa alright I have a question regarding that time maybe we’re going to stray off the topic of aaa working in tele- in television and radio-
Yes yes yes yes-
Aa but because you mentioned something that interested me and I wanted to ask you about it aa when I asked aa in our last session aa what you liked to do aa aside from reading aa you said you loved driving a car-
Aa aside from reading right?
Yes aside from reading-
Yes, yes-
You said you loved driving a car-
Yes wallah-
Yes-
I love like when I learned how to drive a car I loved it in such a way.
Yes.
Yes, but now aa because of my age I can’t drive a car.
Yes, but aa can you tell aa ww when was the first time you drove a car how did you learn?
Yes aa I was from like I can say one of the first people who drove a car- I look I drove in London and I drove in Cairo and I drove in Iran, I was over five years going to aa a conference in Tehran called the Children and Youth Conference I went on an envoy from Kuwait from the ministry of information, of course I was greeted and embraced by the embassy of Kuwait there, aa and the help and honestly it was- those days before the Iranian revolution the days of the Shah, the days of the Shah no the days when his wife wasn’t the aa the Empress Thuraya wasn’t married to him and when he divorced her and married aa aaa Farah Deeba like I went five years in a row, aa an and I got the opportunity to drive Ira- aa aa driv- like the joy j joy of driving in Kuwait Mashallah, like my extent were the chalets that we used to-
[Almahmeed laughs]-
Go to, and like like some- I was never bored, I can’t now but reading thank god.
Yes.
The sight aa thank god thank god, god blessed me with reading the thing I read the most is the Holy Quran I must read it daily, a part or two parts or three whatever I’m able to do I will read the Quran, and if I was abl- now I hope in the part with the the kasra, the fathah and the dhamma and the like aaa, I take my time with reading the Quran as.
Aa alright do you remember in what year aa you drove a car in Kuwait?
Yes the year aa first year- in the year sixty-one.
Yes, aa and do you remember aa like, what car you drove aand-
Lo-
Yes-
Aa I learned how to drive the car that he taught me may he rest in peace, one of my friends taught me how to drive a car, and his car, aa they called it grand prix, that was a Pontiac at that time the names, I wanted to drive a fast car as it turns out it doesn’t speed and while he was teaching me he put this piece of wood-
Ah-
Under the bra- because, and then I bought my own car like I got a ca- the private car and I started driving a c c car aa Gray Victoria Prix like and then aa I can’t say aa the brands of the cars so it doesn’t end up being an ad, I learned to drive drive- aa I drive well-
Yes-
I drive well.
Aa alright question was it common for women aa in Kuwait to drive in the sixties?
Look Kuwait was blessed by god with a blessing that honestly I wish was appreciated more, a blessing that aa anything was aa aa as long as it doesn’t go against religion or custom or tradition was not taboo, so like when I drive in sixty-one maybe one or two other women drive with me like like no one thought it odd that a woman drove a car, they were all- many drove, Kuwaitis and non-Kuwaitis, like I wasn’t the first woman to drive no.
Mm.
Like aa no one wass bothered by seeing seeing a woman driving in the street, I told you that a lovely thing about Kuwait men that in the street he would consider her his sister wife daughter, a relative, so he would respect her, he wouldn’t haras- wouldn’t harass her and that was my experience everyone felt like this person was his own, so why would I bother her? Let me help her, and that was what happened like-
Mm-
That was what happened.
Yes, aa ma’am can you allow us to stop recording and take a short break?
Yes go ahead go ahead go ahead-
Yes thank you thank you, alright-
You didn’t turn off the recorder when you left?
I stopped it.
You stopped it? That’s good-
Yes I stopped it and left and now I turned it on again-
Good, good that’s a relief come come on son-
Yes, yes ma’am aa I remember the last time you said that you retired from your job in seventy-eight-
Yes yes, yes-
Yes, aa is there anything you’d like to add about your time in Kuwait Television-?
No no no like-
Yes-
I did not retire from television.
Ah.
I retired aa from aa my job in the ministry of education I was head of the department of aa the aah, the library I think the department of libraries or like in from the ministry of education I retired from the government work as work as I worked in the department of adult education and eradication of illiteracy in the year seventy- eight.
Yes.
But from television until this moment [laughing] these words-
Yes, aa-
No it’s not-
Yes ma’am h how were you-
I won’t retire from televis- from speaking on television until the last moment in my life.
Yes.
Aa.
Aa alright how were you able to balance aa your work in the ministry of education and television?
Can I tell you something that’d surprise you? Even the Kuwaiti officials in the ministry of education and the ministry of information were very cooperative when it came to Mama Anisa, like I remember aa Ahmad Abdulsamad may he rest in peace Abu Yousef assistant deputy of the ministry of information, he said to me Mama Anisa we don’t want anything from you, the most important thing is us is you being on television, any time you want up to you you go up to you, Mr. Yaqoub Ghunaim Mr.- may god prosper Dr. Yaqoub’s life was the minister aa as deputy in the ministry of education and deputy in- as minister minister in the ministry of education, Mama Anisa I have no business when you come in and when you leave, up to you even if you don’t show up, it’s enough that you’re here in the ministry of education, like I heard those words from these seniors, it encouraged me like I never I what me and my job in the ministry of education a head of department like not that the the like head of a department or deputy of ministry, they dd didn’t check after me no one has ever got me a paper to let me know that I’ve come into the ministry or that I left went and the work, no no no, they didn’t care, no I mean they respected Mama Anisa because she worked, and my work in the ministry of education aaa I got it done- and the job- and the television isn’t work, no the children’s program isn’t work, aa the children’s program all knew when it comes to Mama Anisa Mama Anisa’s programs Mama Anisa in Kuwaiti Telveision is love, honest to god, so no one objected to love, so there wasn’t- mm like not thank god mm, there wasn’t ever from that side there wasn’t.
Aa do you remember what were your responsibilities when it came to your job in the ministry of education?
Yes I told you my last last job was head of the library department aa and the aa learners, the learners which are the women who studied in in aa adult education, and the libra library of administration was with me and the, the aa my visits to aa the the the aa the clubs aaaa that had the schools that offered the studies of course at- night not during daytime aand and it was like ev it didn’t have aa like aaa I can- I can tell you that like I used to visit a center from the adult education centers, what am I supposed to see? From the negativities I see them and report back to the ministry I don’t not li like that, and I reported it to the deputy may he be remembered well aa at that time I can’t recall who which deputy, I told him I visit these schools but it’s not what you think, that the princi- the certain principal was not present and the certain teacher and I come report to you I don’t consider this tattling I’m not here to tattle on others, I aa aa travel and fix the problem between me and myself I never have my own point of view interfere, that was why I was accepted.
Mm.
I mean am I wrong for example?
No you’re right.
Like I visit the center the principal is not in her office, you know the clich- the usual clichés we’re used to, that certain teacher didn’t say- like aa criticisms and critici- that’s not how I operate, my style was understanding between each other and even if that’s wrong we could fix- for example now the the to fix and we we- between us and between each other we can be fraternal, and thank god.
Thank god.
That was how I operated at work.
Yes, aa alright ma’am after you retired from the ministry of education in the year seventy-eight, were you free to do children’s programs on Kuwait Television?
I was free for myself-
Yes, yes.
I was free for myself finally I didn’t have aa a job to wake up for early in the morning so I could go [laughing]-
Yes.
That was the important part.
Aa do you remember what you did? What was different in your life post-retirement?
That’s look I un until this moment aaaa the the waking up early, like it’s my nature I’m not one of the people who take midday naps and such I don’t know how, but aa aa anything is possible like I used used to go out aa out and in aa, I go buy my things for myself, aa I go to to Kuwait television I go- and then my work in children’s programs was especially after like the year nintety ninety-one when I started aa after the invasion may god keep the evil away, aa there was aa my programs were pleasant visiting the not by bringing the aa the children to Kuwait television no, I used to go to them to their schools, so aa I used to visit Kuwait like now if you see you if you had the chance if you get the chance to watch the children’s shows air on Kuwait television on Thursday at seven in the morning, but Friday and Saturday aa at nine and a half, you’d be puzzled because Mama Anisa was in Alandalus today but in Um Alhayman in Ali Sabah Alsalem district may he rest in peace, today in Aljahra today in Fahaheel, I mean I would tour Kuwait east and west south and north in Sabah Alahmad may he rest in peace I measured the distance to and fro one hundered and forty-four meters or kilometers what do they measure with?
Kilo.
Kilo?
Yes.
Like we went and found the school our road to it was seventy-two meters- kilometers, the road back seventy-two, that means one hundred and forty-four meters I spent I- one hundred and forty-four kilometers in one day for a school visit like what time did I leave the house?
Mm.
Six in the morning, six in the morning so I could get to the school and finish my work and come back it’s not important when the trip back would be, so life wasn’t boring for me, wh when I spent my day in the school and the reception was one of kings, in this school not just the children but also the adults the female teachers or if it was a boy’s school the male teachers, and I spent the day until two two two and a half o’clock, even after the work day aa is over the the I would sit and talk have an exchange like was like I aa god, aa god banish it from existence the Corona it prevented me from such joy, like the no, the last day I visited a school and tomorrow they closed them down.
Mm.
Corona aa ha ha happened, my life isn’t boring wallah, why am I telling you this and wallah I’m telling y and god’s my witness I’m honest in- there’s no boredom, the boredom now, where there’s nothing like aa less- if I want aa like for now I encou- aa I have a show my shows that I do I bring here to me in this room.
Mm.
Like I in my sister’s house I have absolute- this house that belongs to my sister I have total freed- freedom to have whoever I want over in work as long as it’s something to to aa work I don’t refuse so in these two halls those we come work on aa shows how we how we sat and recorded if you’ve seen now the show if you’ve had the chance tomorrow or the day after you’d see the show two stages one stage it’s Mama Anisa and she’s talking aa in something, now, happening or going to happen, and I move later and you’d see Mama Anisa as a youth during school days.
Mmm.
I mean j-joy thank god thank god.
Thank god alright ma’am can we go back in time?
Go back as much as you want.
[Almahmeed laughing] Aa yes aa maybe because we’re now talking about current times I want to go back to aa the period during the Iraqi invasion aa do you remember aa where you were what you were doing the day aa the day you heard the news-?
Wallahi lookk, even if it’s a memory I don’t like but situations dictate that we have to talk about it, it was a Thursday, usually my shows on Kuwait Broadcasting, every Thursday, I go I leave from from aa twelve-thirty approximately until from twelve twelve-thirty until four-thirty five at the most, I record my broadcast- aa my broadcast shows are the ones that are aa recorded in this corner, aaa every Thursday, so I aa remember that I was sleeping in the morning and my sister’s little boy that I raised Ahmad he walked on me, he said Mom! Get up the Iraqis have invaded us I said to him god Ahmad that’s not something to say in the morning he said I swear mom it’s true, I was prepared my papers my everything my work to leave the house around eleven thirty approximately, I woke up and found aa the bitter aa the like the reality the truth in the living room upstairs watching it and wallah if I see suddenly now that in their plane in the helicopter they were looking for a place to land it outside in our yard in this very house, so what helped us were our neighbors those that in are a little across from our house there’s a bit of between us aa they’ve put up for them a barri- aa aaa a bar- a barn they’ve put up like chickens and pigeons and so, so they d didn’t have a place to land, so I was just watching this helicopter watching it from the window, and it happened, because I was at home, so I didn’t leave, so may god prevent such evil again like it was a day, an undistinguishable day like the period of invasion may god prevent such evil again, see Abdulaziz I don’t have a name for it me especially, not an invasion I don’t know what the is exactly there was something like, aah, I dd don’t know what it was, something like aah, fear? Fear, aa the people who said we weren’t afraid no I don’t believe it, aa the fear can you believe the fe- the fear do you think fear has a taste? Does fear have a taste?
I don’t know.
I in my life I saw this foreign movie in the sixties in Britain a movie called Taste of Fear, Taste of Fear, and I wonder what does it taste like? A movie, what’s the taste of fear? I found this fear the taste aa the thing here inside, you feell like no matter what you say what can you say? Aa like not thinking this is a neighbor invading their neighbor no no, I’m thinking about this aa taste for this fear, aand I lived it more when my nephew that I’ve raised over at my sister’s and Ahmad he came to me in my embrace, and I raised him and no one can say a word to him, this boy may god bless him god bless him he has a wife and kids he has an eldest daughter named after me Anisa, he has a boy named Abdulrahman he has a daughter named after his birth mother Buthaina, my sister, this boy who was like a flower, sixteen-years-old approximately, he would leave and never come back and I never see him again? [silence] Why? That was aaa the bare minimum aa a few we used to say in Kuwaiti a sentence aaa a few from aa ff from plenty, aa like something ff from from plenty were affected not just me everyone aa that lived in Kuwait Kuwaiti and non-Kuwaiti, the aah, so I feel like that was the pp place of hunger, in aa mm aa fear fear horror like horror- aa great horror in that moment when I remember bbut that that I was afraid of wasn’t a fear from a burglar like they say or from man or ani- fear of the anima- ha it’s different, different, that had a taste and so when I’m asked if fear has a taste? I feel like fear had a taste during the days of the the the invasion of Iraq on Kuwait.
Aa ma’am and an-
And your fear pardon, your fear doesn’t matter matter to me on the like forgive me it doesn’t matter to me on the land as a land, the land everyone can live many were orphaned from land and managed to live, I was afraid for the rulers of Kuwait, I love Alsabah in a way you can’t imag- no fear and no pleading unless it’s from god, I never plead to them for anything, I love them, my mother and my father fed me love for this family, that’s what I knew, so Jaber and Sa’ad where were they? Jusst, aa Jaber and Sa’ad they were the remainder of the family, honestly I mean, maybe I’m exaggerating I don’t know this is what I feel, so so, how? But I had hope until the last moment in god almighty that just like they came in in a night they would leave in an evening and that was what happened… the days went by… what food what drink I would be lying to you if I told you we didn’t eat nor drank no no, but sleep, I the adult in my age I seek refuge in my very young niece, I beg her to sleep with me in my bed because I’m scared of sleeping alone in my room, thank god.
Aa ma’-
Thank-
Ma’am can I ask you the like the fear aa aside from the Alsabah the rulers of Kuwait aa what was the fear aa of and from what else? Can you remember?
I don’t have- I’m not- I’m telling you I don’t know what I was afraid for, I felt the taste of fear, like aa aa I told you I saw this movie and the fear portrayed in it, I don’t know what’s fear like until now I like I sleep without bei- being afraid, I put my head on the pillow I ask aa I pray to god and I thank him aand I close my eyes and I sleep safe and secure there wasn’t wasn’- our safety Abdulaziz you aa like imagine you sleep fully dressed you’re scared when he’d come- when when he’d come to take you when he’d come when he’d pull you because you’re up it happened, it happened because he’d ge- get something material a car or because he doesn’t want to steal he’d intentionally take it, can you sit like that in a room when you have people? No no, we were all upstairs like birds guarded- caged we had nothing to do downstairs, if we went downstairs we were scared if the wind slammed the door imagine, even if if a little breeze creaked the door, aa you feel like there’s something like terrible is coming in, a rabid animal no, the animal there issn’t anyone bringing it in nor anyone asking it to come in, he’s like an animal but this is another human being just like you, and a neighbor, and a friend and a relative.
Aa alright ma’am were you staying in this house in Almansouriya?
In this house but the situation wasn’t similar.
Yes, aa do you remember aa who was in this house at that time?
I I was a guest ov- I wasn’t a guest but like I came to my sister’s house until sixty-nine, I wasn’t there I, I was home alone, but later the hou- even- aa after the situations that have happened I came to my sister’s house, her husband may he rest in peace and my sister may god protect her, and her children the girls Sana and Suwair, and Sahar and Mohammed, Ahmad wasn’t there, Ahmad was born in seventy-two, aand and the the invasion happened in ninety-one, so like aa aa u- that’s our family that was living in this house.
Do you remember your daily life in this house during the invasion?
Ohh, like may he rest in peace, and may god prosper my sister’s life, I never saw a family like this- I never saw my sister and her husband argue and was- like life was good then and thank god their children now have the same attributes.
No I meant during the invasion what was your daily life like?
No that period-
Yes-
The invaaasion… There we were like- it was a poem, like it was us and the holy book were family, we had nothing to do, you watch the television it was Iraq Television, honestly on the radio it’s Iraq broadcast, all of us were close friends with the Quran that was honestly our life, the Quran, especially when Ahmad was taken oh god, life was really miserable like, the the the boy Ahmad who had a piece of my soul, like aa that was a life- I wrote journals by the way but I never gave them to anyone like that was the life of every Kuwaiti house, every Kuwaiti house, and I was the kind of person who scarcely went out- if it wasn’t work I don’t go out I don’t like the kind who’d go to aaa cafes or aa hotels or drinking tea- I wasn’t the type, I love staying home but when the invasion happened aah a person just wanted to leave the house, I’d put my abaya and sunglasses on and come on, m I wanted to see Kuwait, Kuwait that I used to roam like a queen.
And what did you see ma’am?
In the streets any store that’s selling anything I would go, they would go to a bodega I would come across Iraqis no problem lik- I wasn’t afraid of the- not afraid of the Iraqi as a human no I swear not as a human, let the Iraqi see and so many times I’ve been met with so many times, like I went to buy water from a store in Hawally, so I said to the seller he was Palestinian I said to him aa I want give this this this aa like the c- some cartons of water, and there were Iraqis standing there no doubt they knew me, and the Palestinian god bless him I don’t know where he went he said to me, why are you the only one who wants to drink water? Do you want to take all- no like he wanted to give me a little, he didn’t want to sell me sell- maybe he was afraid of the Iraqis and that went unsaid, I said I want all of those, he was afraid and the Iraqis were standing there, the Iraqi said give it to her, I turned to him and said this- this isn’t generosity from you, this from my own money I’m not using your money no Wallah Wallah Wallah I didn’t use the Iraqi dinar, I didn’t us- aa I only use Kuwaiti dinar even the Iraqi dinar a dinar is equivalent to ten Iraqi I didn’t care how cheap the diner was I didn’t care how expensive, I only cared to use the Kuwaiti dinar I I my Kuwaiti dinar no the Iraqi I told him I this is not kind of you to tell him let- give her the water, because it’s with my money my Kuwaiti dinar, no more talking, I took the the water like aa when they say they harassed us- I stood up to the Iraqis, they never harmed me.
Mm.
They didn’t hurt me, on the contrary if I’m being honest to god like the Iraqi m might’ve been offended [incomp] but because he recognized me wallah as Mama Anisa because plenty of them told me the mea- meat on our bones is from you, from Kuwait, more than once a solider that I’ve come across told me the meat on our bones were from you, I don’t remember this thing, so in I took the water and left all, in the time the Palestinian whom I saw in his eyes the look of fear he didn’t mean he was withholding like he didn’t want to give me this much water but he said what he said because aa like because like the Iraqis aa might’ve told him no no don’t sell it or something so like we had days in Kuwait that were full of hardships hard- its hardships wasn’t because you were scared from the Iraqi human no to me to me I wasn’t scared from the Iraqi human as a human I was scared o of Iraqis I don’t know what- I don’t know I told you fear had a horrible taste in me.
Aa ma’am were there any other situations where you had to encounter Iraqi soldiers-
Plenty-
Can you recall them?
Plenty-
Yes-
I used to harass them; they weren’t harassing me.
How so?
Like for example aa in the flea market they used to sell sell oranges and such, iin in aa bags of oranges- I said to him I want these two one of them aa came down and told me why two you can’t afford them, I told him I told you the money the Kuwaiti dinar in my hand do you want go give them to me I swear to god like I was the one harassing them, if there was- was any malice in them to me he turned and he looked at me and said at your service he gave them to me and I gave him Kuwaiti.
Was that because they knew who you were?
I don’t know, I say the fear like the fear was aa like as if I aa excuse me god forgive me as if I was in a state of hopelessness well this is a life that will end, in my mind it- Jaber and Sa’ad were gone, I was offered to leave Kuwait… I said- excuse me for this word, this word like my own government was in refuge and I seek refuge in them? I’m not leaving Kuwait, it’s my land I’m not leaving it, Kuwait like they came in one night in the morning they’re leaving, in a ni- the night in a night and that was what happened, look aa Abdulaziz you always have to keep whatever comes to you no matter how heavy this thi thing is always say god, god almighty is kind, god almighty is kind and mighty, I go into my room and the Quran is there in front of me, I can’t read aa all this, I embrace the desk that the Quran is on I say oh god oh god, oh god almighty, but, because there’s nothing you can do, there’s nothing you can do ever.
Aa alright ma’am do you remember your nephew how his arrest happened and how he came back to you?
Wallahi Ahmad it was a Friday Abdulzaziz you’re reminding me of things I donn-
I apologize ma’am if you don’t want to talk about-
It’s ok- no no it’s okay-
Yes yes-
It was a Friday, and Ahmad Ahmad is beautiful, beautiful beautiful not just because- his physical physically no really a as a young man, he left the house aa left- I was sitting with my abaya on- all of us his father may he rest in peace and his mother and mm- and aa and in the living room and I was reading the Quran, he came down the stairs, wearing a white dishdasha and the aa the Kuwa- the Kuwaiti formal wear like, his hai- he had such thick hair, he said I said to him you’re so beautiful Ahmad, aa he said to me mom wouldn’t you like- I swear he reached the door, the time was elev- twelve eleven he wanted to go pray in the mosque, so he said to me mom wouldn’t you like it if the Iraqis just took me, god I would never forget it, I said to him Ahmad darling don’t go out, don’t go, mom he was laughing, I’m going to my friends and we’ll go to the mosque to pray, Ahmad if he told you until today I’m coming at four he means he’ll be there fifteen minutes to four and not four-fifteen, he had that trait, so he said four-thiry, no he didn’t say he was c- coming back and going, he left, he called around three and said at four-thirty he said I- aa I’m coming home, like until four-thirty that meant he’s coming to me around three-thirty, it got to three-thirty then four then four-thirtty, I left the Quran and I turned to his father may he rest in peace, I said to him Ahmad was taken by the Iraqis, mom just calm down, I told him Ahmadoh isn’t he- when he says isn’t he supposed to come fifteen minutes before? It was a quarter to five it’s enough, I told them I swear if Ahmad was taken by the Iraqis then Ahmad isn’t coming back, like that with fury and I immediately started crying, calm down I s- slammed the Quran and it started my brother Abdulaziz may he rest in peace f from his house, because aa I was making a call- like they saw that it was unusual, and really it was a and Ahmad didn’t come back until [she sighs] a long time, the days pa-passed, and Ahmad came back how did he he come back well aa their nature- here here was the real terror that they would bring the person up to the house and kill him at their front door, so at- we were sitting here our house was different this room this was a dining room it wasn’t m mixed with the other one there was the gue- the house was completely different, so we’re here sitting on the table supposedly having lunch, the telephone rang gracious god his mother was the one who picked up, I saw his mother scream and collapsed on the floor, what happened? [she claps with her hands] she was saying Ahmad said he was coming, mom I’m coming they’re bringing me now, aa it was like an unusual situation that his sister aand her husband one of his sisters and her husband went out to the street aa in the car his father stood in front of the door, his mo-mother aa sat pra- like I sat on the aa the steps outside and held the Quran and all and put them in my lap no it wasn’t one Quran god forgive me, even though, because we expected when he came that they would bring him to the door like usual and kill him and dispose of him and leave, no aa, they dropped him off I don’t know how they dropped him if it was really cold they took him it was the eleventh month it wasn’t cold a white dishdasha, the dishdasha was a half-sleeve one, cold the boy was afraid he wasn’t normal he wasn’t wasn’t the normal Ahmad the, of course there were threats there was of course undoubtedly they were threatened, we prayed over him come in darling w wash wash up take a bath, aa can we make you a soup he said yes he drank the soup and slept from five o’clock the day he arrived until the second day the third day he was still asleep and we were scared for him just from, so it was like our state in our house was the state of many of the Kuwaitis, they went through this and worse even, that was one of the situations that we went through the hardest thing I’ve ever been through-
Yes, aa alright ma’am aa did he tell you what happened with him aa during his detention?
Wallah no he stayed silent for a long time don’t talk, the your house is being watched, what aa we had a ju jujube tree outside, mom don’t talk don’t say don’t call don’t like the boy was deathly afraid and that fear was reflected on the fear that I had aa, truly for a long time-
Yes.
Until just like until we our neighbors Safar house they had a boy aa Haitham- Mai- aa his name aa I don’t know what his name was he was a friend of Ahmad’s, and they were our neighbors, this this boy was so beautiful he looked German he wasn’t even American even, he went out and they killed him over over the petrol gas, and that multiplied Ahmad’s fear and our fear, like that was after liberation-
Ah-
No not after liberation aa may- yes after liberation after liberation they were I think after liberation aa I don’t know how they killed him, yes I mean aa Iraqis had a huge impact here, aa I don’t remember liberation after liberation during the the the invasion anyway aa like aa they didn’t leave a positive impact may god forgive them now I say may god forgive the the the ones that stayed that didn’t have anything to do with it it’s unfair unfair, aa, god almighty takes the unfair as they say.
Yes, aa alright ma’am do you remember if there was any communication between you and for example aa your neighbors or family that lived in other areas at that time-?
Of coursee of co- how eve- like my daughter Suhair her husband Sa’ad Abdulaziz Jafar my daughter my niece and her husband my nephew and their house my brother Abdulaziz may he rest in peace their house was in Alrawdha, and she was sick, so I took with us my sister and, and a Palestinian friend we had with us he was the one who drove the car we went so we could go in and see Suhair who was sick, at the entrance of Alrawdha he said don’t go in, they’re doing aa what their search, why? I told him my daughter like I begged him like I never begged someone before, please please I swear my daughter is sick I want to see her, he said let her die like now you like want to aa go- leave my duty they were cruel, over there and he didn’t let us in and we went back you- like don’t ask about one single event ask about Kuwait in its entirety what happened, during the days of the invasion.
Yes.
And thank god.
Thank god.
By the mention of God, and Kuwait returned.
Alright ma’am do you remember the war of liberation the desert storm and those days?
Look, it- the second month month it was aa the ai- the naval strike came and the I don’t know and the land and such, that was on the twenty-sixth when the Kuwaiti liberation happened aa before at night at night, aa aa between us and the neighbors’ house we made an opening (nigba firya), so we could go and come between us neighbors, they had a basement.
That was here in this house?
In house in this house-
Yes-
In this house that house no longer exists aa there was we had this firya aa between us, so aa so aa we’d go leave and we’d get in our house and in- they’d come in house, so I aa like I would hear, on the rin- our house was on the second ring road, wallah before twelve I used to hear ex aa, apparently they were leaving Kuwait they were taking the tanks out it was whatever they could take out not even tanks their cars what whatever they had with them what they took from Kuwait, so it was that night aa and the radios began broadcasting and the people began cel- like we know that aa because aa the dead one we can’t say may he rest in peace Bush said it the-
[Almahmeed laughs]-
He said like in the time the the aa by a divine order you leave aa they left Kuwait, and the liberation happened thank god.
Do you remember how you felt?
Huh my boy?
Do you remember how you felt?
No here here aa the feeling of one insane individual really [laughs]-
[Almahmeed laughs]-
If I wasn’t crazy I wouldn’t have gotten in my car and drove to the Alshaab Pa-Palace he was telling me Sheikh Fawaz the son of Sheikh Sauod Alsabah may he rest in peace aa Fawaz was saying to me ma’am we saw you in the car when we were going in you were standing on the aaah, a high rock rubble because they demolished Sadam Hussein’s statue he had Sad- on Alseif Palace over at Alseif Palace, so he told me we saw you holding excuse me aa the the shoe? and I threw [laughs]-
[Almahmeed laughs]-
Like the feeling of m aa an insane person like not someone of this age [laughing]-
[Almahmeed laughs]-
Noo aa thank god thank god.
Thank god.
Mm thank god because during the war aa during the invasion aa maybe you remember that aa the aa the Berlin wall fell and became I said oh god Berlin aa like the- aa became one, became one, we can’t can’t b can’t be freed? No no, we will be fr- the evil aa will be removed inshallah and truly, like aa it was as if fate g gives you a glimpse into things, like in the aa when was the second world war? Fifty-four? The worl- happened?
Uum-
Aa fort-fi- from forty until forty-eight yes at that time, from that time until now Berlin until the yea- the year ninety the wall of Berlin aa was up and then it fell aa and they would make peace and be, in the nineties.
Mm.
Like there isn’t, by the will of god there isn’t anything that wouldn’t h- wouldn’t happen, by the order of god if god willed something he would say be and it would be, and it was.
Mm.
Take me out of this mood I’m begging you [laughing]-
Inshallah we’ll get out of it would you like to take one last break? I know the time left-
Oh yes my son-
We have fifteen minutes left right?
Yes, no problem fifteen minutes come on.
Aa do we continue recoding you mean?
Yes yes continue son.
Yes okay do you want-
Continue continue-
Us to stop at exactly twelve?
Yes yes son if you wouldn’t mind.
Inshallah, aa alright aa do you remember after the invasion what was Kuwait like aa after aa like in the remnants of the invasion?
You weren’t in Kuwait?
I was a year old.
A year oh wow [laughing]-
[Almahmeed laughs]-
My question was really-
I-
S- aa silly I should’ve known you were young-
No no I- yes I I was born in eighty-nine.
Mashallaaah-
Yes-
Ya Allah may you prosper longer.
With you inshallah.
And may you only come across good things inshallah for Kuwait and others in the world I don’t like destruction in the world at all, aa like aah, what was the question?
Aa it was if you remember what Kuwait was like af aa after the liberation after the invasion?
Of course-
Yes-
Of course Kuwait was in rub- rubbles like the first thing in Salwa the detective building that the they burned the building, but life began to slowly slo- no now in the present time maybe I don’t excuse it, why? Kuwait had not begun to go back to, no I say to people we need to be patient like for example now you find Kuwait is all in shambles honestly, yesterday specifically I was coming back with aa my niece from from the doctor she was saying un until when? I told her maybe in my lifetime I wouldn’t see the day that Kuwait is done but I would say give Kuwait five years nothing more, Inshallah hopefully give it give years all this rubble and this destruction that happened was all for Kuwait to be fixed tomorrow when it’s all briidges and all aaa that land that’s going to be fixed, Kuwait will become heaven on earth, if I’m still there I don’t know it’s god’s will, but if I’m not there remember me and say wallah Mama Anisa said that Kuwait will be in- Inshallah in five years inshallah Kuwait will be a paradise, bridges and aand things aaa other, but be a little patient we’re impatient here in Kuwait we’re hasty we want want the roads to be fi fix- quickly fixed we want the houses want want thing- all that is by the grace of god and the will of the Kuwaiti individual inshallah Kuwait will be, and our faith in god almighty and his will Kuwait will be back to, being more beautiful and not- it’s it’s more beautiful to me than any spot in the world believe me, it’s not li aa aa I’ve seen the whole world and I’ve seen the beauty of the world but aa I hope inshallah that Kuwait becomes what I see it as and even more beautiful that it already is.
Inshallah, aa ma’am we I know that the time is very limited and it’s running out-
[Mama Anisa laughs]-
So is there something aam in your life aa we could’ve covered but we haven’t?
Wallahi I’m not- look life always has but there isn’t aa like aaa what I want to say is- whatever you wanted I’ve told you.
Yes,
Like if what- aa the thing that interests people about Mama Anisa’s life she’d said-
Yes, we’re interested in more but there’s no time [laughing]-
Wallah the days will come inshallah we’ll meet again how we’ve seen how situations happened inshallah-
Inshallah, anything-
Insha-
You would like to add at the end?
No wallahi other than thanking you specifically with the utmost respect and gratitude for allowing me to take from your time and whoever hired you to do this thing if you were hired or the that the group that is you young people working together for one another, I hope that like what I said was useful to you or aa gave you an idea of a life of a humble Kuwaiti person a daughter of Kuwait, who loves Kuwait more than she loves any other place in the world but I glorify aa god almighty’s will and aa I want what’s best for the world inshallah, and I’m n not not a pessimist, I’m not bein- not a pessimist not just in Kuwait but for the entire world I’m always hopef- hopeful for the good to come with the people who do good.
Inshallah-
In god almighty’s will-
Inshallah-
And thank you Abdulaziz-
Ma’am we thank you so much for your time aand like your beautiful narration of the history-
My time is yours, my time is yours-
Of your life like aa mashallah your life is rich, I didn’t want the conversation to end-
It’s okay-
Aa aand you’ve been kind thank you for your kindness and generosity-
You’re welcome son you’re welcome-
Aa you’ve been kind thank you-
You’re most welcome.
Then if that’s that we stop recording?
Aa go ahead.
Inshallah.
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