Interview with Louloua Al-Mulla

Aa starting to record, aa my name is Reem Al-Ali a and today is the 5th of December aa 2019, and we're in Khaldiya in Kuwait and the time is around 11 in the morning, umm Mrs. Louloua Al-Mulla thank you for agreeing to do this interview, aa this interview is part of the Oral History project by the American University in Kuwait, aa I'd like to ask you aa for your full name?

Louloua Saleh Al-Mulla, or sometimes as a title Louloua Mulla Saleh Al-Mulla.

Aa and the place and date of birth?

Aa Kuwait 1944.

Where were you born in Kuwait?

I was born in Sharq in our house by the sea.

Amm

Aa and the Diwaniyah is still there but because the building was old so -I mean it was beginning to aa- I mean, ero.. what's another word for erosion or I mean-any-it was- anyways it was torn down but the diwaniyah is still there, I mean it was not demolished- it was restored aa because that was in my father's will that the Diwaniyah is not to be touched, to stand I mean forever till I mean, till God wills it [laughs] the grandsons of grandsons.

Aa what are your memories of Sharq?

Honestly Sharq is my entire childhood, that is until aa I mean when-until I grew up and was in aa secondary and highschool we moved like I said earlier because the house was beginning to erode, the old building was decaying and it was a big house, it had the entire family aa we lived with the entire family with my brother and his children and wife, my niece her children and her husband, my half-sister from my father's side with her children, so this courtyard held the family together and gave us a sense of love and familiarity, aa and we're still protective of each other because we lived together so we became like aa-like siblings and we are indeed brothers and sisters, but I mean it is very important this phase that creates this sense of a a a I mean, harmony between all members of the family, so we all lived in that house and we were raised in that house, and the house was for-I mean the Diwaniyah was a symbol for everyone that was born there, of the ones I mentioned earlier to you, aaa and we're still- I think my father's wishes were wise, so when the government aa, I mean umm acquired all the old diwaniyas by the sea aa aa my brother Mohammad may he rest in peace who was the closest inheritor, aa he said I am abiding by the aa umm, in the... in what? I mean the will, he was abiding by the will, that's why the possibility of aa the government acquiring it, dith-with-despite the I mean the lucrative sum of money, but we were not tempted by money when it came to my father's will who is the cornerstone of everything in our lives and the lives of every member of Al-Mulla family, because he was a man who loved everyone and protective of everyone aa, he was generous and gave and -in his life and after death too aa he gave all the same rights be it a boy or girl in the- in everything, and even the ones who helped, even the helpers who were with him, even the ones who grew up with us in the old were raised with - I mean families who if for instance one was a companion let's say ha? A companion of my father aa of course his children and wife and such were considered part of the family, we lived together and still close we're still three sister and we have a fourth sister too, and that goes for my brother's house and the house of-I mean all the families I think in the ol- families, I mean the fam-the old or the I don't want to say aa -old, the aa I mean aa this was normal, but that was the way it was in Sharq and came out of Sharq, and I told you tho- those families too he was generous with them, a house next to ours in Sharq was given to one of them, the other one was close t-t-to the area was also given to him, s-I mean he gave them houses to protect them not just I mean, not something perishable.

Aa how many aa brothers and sisters were you?

Aa we umm it was that my father was married before and had Abdullah who's the eldest, he also had Mohammad who was older but died in the battle of Jahra, umm aa there's also umm aa my brother Abdullah may God rest his soul who was a secretary to the government of Kuwait after my father, umm, Shaikha has children too, she's from aa from my father's w-my father I mean from his first wife and when she died aa he married my mother-my mother it's true he was quite old when he married her she was really young but because she was beautiful and was a relative so they said you know you know how marriages were carried out in the old times aa so she married him aa with the big age gap, aa so I mean I among three sisters was the youngest, and my brother Mohammad may God rest his soul he died at a young age.

Aa and you're the youngest?

I'm the youngest the f-

Umm you mentioned-

Fourth.

Your house in Sharq was big and many people were living in it, could you describe the house to me?

Umm, the house you know is by the sea and the diwaniyah is probably still by the sea, aa you know between Al-Amiri hospital and the current British Embassy, aa that building umm you know it was not- like it's not a diwaniyah in the back of that diwaniyah which overlooks the other street that was the big house aa with a courtyard in the middle and sections in every aa corner there were rooms and attached quarters for the family, we were in the one next to the diwaniyah and my older brother too was also in the corner next to the diwaniyah and aa and his niece I mean his niece from his mother's side you know my father, his son's daughter his son's daughter not his brother's daughter the daughter of his son Mohammad who died along with her husband and her children they were living in the other corner and my sister aa with her children without her husband aa in the other corner so these four corners had children and adults and they all met in the courtyard.

The courtyard was in the middle of the house?

In the middle of the house, a pond in the middle of the house, trees aa what were they called?

K'naar?

K'naar! [Laughs] K'naar it was a big tree of k'naar I remember, aaand other trees a willow tree and there were beautiful trees that grew in the courtyard, but not many, so the courtyard was a kind of aa playfield, for bicycles, between the courtyard there was a liwan (a covered terrace), liwan aa it was an old style house and had umm aa mandat wood there mandat and I think Al-Baders' house still have the same aa aa aa the spirit of the this -to an extent, so we had liwans then the rooms then the courtyard, and the courtyard was a aa you know a theatre to us and a playfield for bicycles and for children.

What type of games did you play for instance?

Bicycle, bicycles bicycle bicycle I used to love riding the bicycle and we could go out to the street with it, w-and the d- the door was in- you know between the house entrance for example, in front of the entrance there was a looong corridor till you reach the end of it that opens to the street by the sea, which is now on pa- par- parallel to the diwaniya the diwaniya door, but there wasn't a door there but a corridor, I think they used to make it this way because it's for the women and children fo- so it's inside a bit, the en entrance is not directly on the street, you had to walk a bit for example a car could enter it.

So you mean the street was narrow, no-?

No no no no no the street aa was wide we used to ride our bicycles in it, but they were concerned for our safety so they put an iron bar like bars I can't forget it, an iron bar by this so you don't ride your bicycle directly into the street and be hit by a car or such, so we used the bar I remmeber aa we used to wear skirts back then we used to wear skirts at the time no one wore pants you see, an- we'd hug the bar and turn and turn and turn and turn, so it was fun to see who's skirt would fly higher and we couldn't care less about who's in the street [laughs] so this was a hobby of ours like that, but the most important one was the- th bicycles each one had a bicyle, and aa umm there was also a boy - I mean aa boys and girls of the family aa they'd go swimming after school.

So the aa boys and girls used to play together?

It was fine we all had bicycles girls' bicycles at that time were, I have a picture of me on my bicycle [laughs], I have a picture of me on my bicycle when I was little, in the courtyard.

What year was this approximately?

Aa I think aa I was aa say ar aa I mean I'm sure it was in primary school, how old are primary schoolers I don't know, [sighs] aa, I know I said my I was born in 44 but that's not confirmed because he did not mark the date, imagine this is a point I need to make, my father may he rest in peace had a book and it's still with us in which he wrote down all the aa birthdates of the boys, that's not a point in my father's favor he was very much with the females and he did not discriminate as I said and I'll tell you what he used to do to us, he did not discriminate but there was something that aa hurt us that first in my time when I was born there wasn't aa ummm like what?

Documentation for instance?

No that was a birth certificate, alright? Nobody so when he only marked down the date for the boys and the boys are with us, we began to wonder who's older and who's younger so we had our ages like that, and 44 I couldn't say no because I wasn't born in 44, I mean I could be younger but because it's in the citizenship papers, it was all up to the person who wrote it down so I went once to change it and said I wasn't 44 I wasn't born in 44 that's for sure I mean, I wanted to change it, so he said oooh you have to go I don't know where I can't forget it was Age something I don't know, so I said you know what? 4 years younger or 4 years older or 5 I honestly don't care but at that time it was important to me now it does matter to me [laughs] I mean at the time when it first became official I was frustrated, but now I say 5 years aa it's all behind me so I'm letting it go [laughs].

Aa was this common that official documents were not aa, years were not accurate?

It still isn't in the government to this day they mess it up-

In the in the aa -

Of course, in the spelling of names for instance you're taking the correct spelling from the civil ID why misspell it in the passport? Or the opposite is true? So that's still happening to this day.

Aa you mentioned that when you came from school you were-

Umm

You would go to the beach aa what school did you go to?

Ash-sharqiyyah.

Ash-Sharqiyyah.

Was there a school other than Ash-Sharqiyyah?

Aa-

I was in Ash-Sharqiy- Aa aa I mean I was in Ash-Sharqiyyah no sorry I meant my sisters went to Ash-Sharqiyyah I went to not Al-Muhallab but what's the one across from Al-Muhallab? Oh, I forgot, the one next to it was right behind our behind our our house it's still there, Al-Muhallab and the one across from it, say it Al-Kha say I went first to Aa Ash-Sharqiyyah definitely I started there in Ash-Sha- definitely went first to Ash-Sharqiyyah, but se secondary school I went to aam, umm I can remember the boys' but can't remember the girls' I can't remember it- Al-Muhallab was for boys and across from it in Sharq I'll get you the name I forgot it-

Aa

It's still there taken over, aa the bilingual owned by Hind Al-Naqib, a school.

Aa you fir--aa primary school was in Ash-Sharqiyyah?

For Primary school I went to Ash-Sharqiyyah, secondary school I went to-

Aa what was the curricula at the time? For instance do you remember the subjects you used to take?

Everything, everything, and I remember having great teachers, and I remember aa aa but I remember more from my secondary school, I mean what I remember secondary school the most I remember the type of teachers we had they were very refined.

Where were the teachers from?

Egypt and Leb- aand Palestine mostly, ummm I mean even the exercise instructor aand what were we studying? Aa they call- they didn't call it dancing then they called it rhythmic movements, aand we would make plays aand participate in sporting events and participate in m I mean sporting events and what they called- I mean there were many sporting events and art activities and handicrafts exhibitions, that's something that I saying in all my interviews that that was very important for education, it doesn't just teach you aa aa I mean aa the I mean you know how it has a goal to teach you how to interact with your classmates c- creating the spirit of cooperation and teamwork, the love of hard work not just learning books by heart and now they're not even doing that- they get someone else to learn it by heart for them unfortunately these things are happening now and we hear of it every day and it hurts us I mean we see- we see how we were raised and educated with- despite the progress we've made to this point our education was far better than it is today, far better, music we came to love music sports we came to love sports, aa aa embroidery we came to love embroidery I grew up loving sewing and I still love sewing, why? How? It was school, a girl now wouldn't know a thing about sewing wouldn't know se- even home economics made an impact on us we'd go back home I am certain there were many girls like me wanting to do what we learnt in class, I swear to God this made us I mean I lived in a house in which I did absolutely nothing I was young and pampered so I never had to do house chores and so was my mother she never had to in fact my mother doesn't even k-know the kitchen doesn't know where it is and doesn't know how to do anything, alright? That's how I lived, but when I got married you know what made the biggest impact on me? It was home economics [laughs] I was really it made me love touching the kitchenware and put pots over the a- from the first thing I made till the- that's how I came to cook when I first got married because then when you first get married it's just you and your husband they're not going to provide you with a cook and a driver like nowadays, a woman barely gives birth to find a nurse hovering over her she doesn't get married un un aa I mean the, what can I say the helpers are more than aa the members of the family in the house.

So you feel-

This is important noticing how life has changed with material gains.

So like you said education then focused on art music home economics-

Yes.

Umm you said you made plays could you tell me of a play you made?

No I I unfortunately I mean I wasn't aa-

Or something you participated in?

I don't like acting [laughs] like I told you I don't know how to act I'm natural that's why that's my character I don't know I think actors can still act in their lives after their roles maybe [laughs] maybe-

But what were some of the activities you took part in?

What left an impression on me, what left an impression on me, I used to participate in the what is it called the aaa rhythmic dances like something in between aaa ummm ballet but it's not ballet and I can't forget our Egyptian teacher she was thin and elegant and teaches aa not ballet definitely not ballet but dances to aa the music of Farid Al-Atrash but it was really ballet and I could never forget her, this made me love moving to music aa t- I mean moving your body to music, it creates a mood I believe that people who love to dance or love music are very happy in their lives, because when I go to concerts I see myself happier than the person sitting next to me, why? Because she's not enjoying the music and doesn't know how to dance [laughs] so maybe I'm wrong but that's how I feel.

And this was one of the taught subjects?

A subject, if you loved music you'd go to music and if you want to go to aa acting you'd go to acting but home economics was a compulsory subject.

For everyone?

Yes for everyone, but PE was not they give you a choice between PE or acting? Or music if you play it? I didn't play any instrument, I used to aa I mean participate in the aa rhythmic dances.

So these arts were part of the educational system?

Yes, this is something I always bring attention to in every interview because this is us we are a generation made by this, a generation raised this way in that atmosphere in school, the good thing was that we were good kids with no need for tutors and our mothers didn't know how to help us, alright? We were good kids an and we passed and moved ahead and graduated, nothing happened to us we didn't need any one I mean and we had the best teachers, and that's the atmosphere they made in that aa aa afterschool, of sports and arts activities and that's how we were made and our character shaped in such a remarkable way.

Umm do you remember for example aa a story that happened with aa, with this subject or home economics a dish you cooked for instance with-

[Al-Mulla laughs]

the students or any story you remember?

Not really I joined my sister who's older than I Sherifa who's really you know aa adventurous, I mean she has a lot of adventures she first took a ca- in the car she'd take a car in front of the house in- on the coast road and drive it back and forth and my father knows that she- You know that she's driving the car but he doesn't yell at her because he loves her and if you want to talk about her, aa she came back once to do aa aaa what she learnt in home economics, and I went to help her.

At home.

At home in our- our section had the kitchen you know, so I was with her when she put the rice then the water then she put it over the stove next thing we know the rice was overflowing and spilled over the stove and it broke and stopped working and my mother started yelling what happened what have you done you almost burnt us she didn't know rice could overflow and grow in size and be strained, and it- aa it started eating itself and grew- I mean it absorbed all the water and overflowed the pot, and umm it could've started a fire- this I cannot forget, but she surprisingly still doesn't like cooking after that [laughs].

After that incident [laughs].

Unlike her you know aa I like cooking.

Aa do you remember for instance who was with you in aa school in in the rhythmic dancing classes for example?

Yes Hind Al-Omar was with me, and and she was really aa you know Hind I remember her because she was really graceful [laughs] but aa my memory is not that good but you know she was really graceful and she had a good jump in gymnastics, what is it called when you jump over a horse I don't know what it's called, and I used to be envious of her, because she was tall and her legs were long and such [laughs] and she'd jump high I remember Hind, aa-

You remember for example doing a show once or?

Yes, you k- believe it or not we participated in aa Shuwaikh highschool in their stadium, girls and k- boys? The girls' school on one side the boys on the other? And in the afternoon we went to Al-Siddeeq to play music- I don't think Al-Siddeeq is still around- Al-Siddee- Yes Al-Siddeeq school I remember it well it's imprinted on my mind aa in that school we played on their stage the girls played by themselves on their side then it was the boys turn and they played, Al-Siddeeq I forgot where it was aa-

What grade was this secondary school too?

Aaa yes secondary school.

And there were boys and girls at the same event?

Yes! It wasn't co-ed, aa but we aa their turn would end and we would enter and vice versa that's how I remember it I don't remember it very well but I do remember why? Because I remember aa one of the people who knew- I mean one of the people we know he told his sister yes I saw Louloua in school he meant Al-Siddeeq so I mean aa I'm sure we were together-

Together.

It was either them before us- we entered after them so you can't really remember very well but I remember we went there to play music on the stage in Al-Siddeeq school it was a new school I think it's on the aa first ring road or something like that now, there were no-

A and what was the occasion? I mean was there an occasion or-

It was an annual event organized by the schools so you work all year long staying late afterschool, that was all year long training for this event that they're going to organize every year, I told you we went to Al-Shuwaikh stadium we pl- aa but you know umm you know I remember we went to participate and such but the details I can't remember really but it aa they'd take us there from school in a bus.

Aand let me go back a little to an important phase you mentioned you would come back from school and go to the beach?

Hmmm.

Aa what did you do?

We used to swim and jump in the water, but I was treated a bit unfairly, my father aa, may God rest his soul aa his eyesight began to deteriorate, because his eyesight was already poor despite him wearing glasses and having eye surgery, I remember he had it in Austria, So he frequently traveled to Austria and back it was to us you know, aa a big deal and I remember the gifts he brought back from Austria [laughs].

What yea- around the fifties or sixties?

Before his passing away so yes the fifties no, he passed away 58 or 59, hmmm mm.

So he came back from Austria bringing back-

He brought back gifts yes.

What were the gifts if you could give us an example?

I don't remember really but I remember he brought back a lot of gifts and people were excited about it.

Toys you mean?

No no there were no toys no he brought back things aa like a silk jacket and such you know, someone must've bought them for him [laughs] he asked them to buy things, and he just gave it to us, aaa-

You said you were treated unfairly?

When I used to come home from school- this is something I can't forget it's imprinted on my mind, aa he would call me every day every single day to read you know so I got tired of doing it every day, aa alright aa aa his room had a bed and and I remember and a long cushion, aand it was his room only it was the old days aa you know men had to be revered this way, so a cushion like so and he would sit aa in a spot in front of the other room which has our rooms and our entrance looking at who's going in and ou- here, so when I came in he would say come my daughter come come alright but all my friends left all the kids went to the beach except me, I have to sit with him I have to, and in between me and him is the cushion and the Quran and he'd say "qesseeli qesseeli" you probably don't know what "qesseeli" means, it means recite, look if I'm reading it correctly or not, I would sit for 15 minutes 20 minutes half an hour and the kids are playing in the water and I'm sitting there really frustrated, aa umm this happens sometimes not ev- every not every day because the water is not always in a flood tide, so when we come home from school and the water is in flood tide everyone would run to their mothers Mom I wa- I want to go to the beach everyone except me I have to sit and read with him, anyways I used to pretend I used to pretend aa what's the matter? What's the matter my daughter? Are you fed up dear fed up alright go go go [laughs], I'd pretend I'm fed up especially if the water was in fnood tide-flood tide I mean aa flood tide means when the water is high, aand I'd run quickly to the beach, he knew but he didn't want to be cruel, he was never cruel he probably secretly laughed or he was probably happy or whatever you know, but umm, that's what I remember I mean I remember my mother she was really really aa, aa she raised us on a system you know? You I mean aa your clothes even though you know we were living in a house and the people who would cook and do other things were in another courtyard, in big houses the cooking was in a different courtyard, the pantry was in a courtyard and the rooms and the you know, I mean thank God but she wouldn't allow anyone to come and aa when we were kids to serve us, you had to do it and carry things and do things, she wouldn't allow it and when I would visit with her and this is imprinted on my mind I would visit with her and I was really clingy - I mean the most clingy to her- maybe because I was the youngest, she would visit and take me with her I don't know where she was going but she would visit someone important, so when the maid came or anybody she would pinch me to get up and carry and take things and such you know? So she would even force us to wash our clothes, by ourselves, especially the little pieces it doesn't have to be you know, aa so I that's what I'm doing now not only on my children aa, I applied it and my daughter is applying it on her children, so you see this spirit aaand we feel it when we visit another family and such and see something contrary to what we do we feel upset, a lot, because you feel like-

A different upbringing?

What's the value of a human being, it's not just the upbringing what value does a human being have if everything is done for them, so this is probably a trait in my personality that makes me want to help others, I love to help and be more modest, because I am satisfied with who I am you know thank God I am living a comfortable life aa aand we have everything brought to us and then taken away when we're done so we didn't do anything food would be spread over that what's it called so we'd sit and eat, I really don't even remember washing one dish, ever, the dishes would be taken as is and I didn't even know where it was washed, not even my mother washed it but she probably felt that this is wrong and it shouldn't be like this-

It must be sown.

It must be created yes I have to sow it in my children and this is something I really really really remember very well I feel like you know it made me, grateful to her, that she raised me and I raised my children and my children now are you know everyone is impressed by them- yes because there is a difference! There is-even the boys, even boys, thanks be to God, I don't want to brag [laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs] No it's alright, aa OK you said that when you could aa not sit down with your father you would go to the beach.

Yes yes.

The same beach on the gulf road?

Exactly that one, but without all the you know back then-

The beachfront.

Huh?

Without the beachfront.

No no no there were no you know we would go down-

Could you describe it to me?

Yes aa look you know like we would go down a long alley from the Haram's door they used to call it that, we would go down a long alley mmm that is paved with cement of course, and it's the same one we used to ride our bicycles there even more than in the courtyard when we were kicked out.

[Al-Ali laughs]

Aa then the bar we used to spin on - spin on it and see who's skirt would fly higher, then the street aa o- it was asphalt of course, but the the sides mmm they were not paved there no pavement, only asphalt for car, then the beach, just sand with no asphalt, and we had made stairs definitely my family I don't know aa they definitely made it in front of our house steep stairs we would go down there was even grass on it and it was slippery and we had fun with it we'd sit there and slide to aa the beach, aa because it had gra-grass on it, and the wall was on the sand a short wall who could ever jump over it, it was probably a meter high or such, but to us it was too tall and we couldn't jump over it because we were little so I saw it as too tall, then someone said no it's not too tall but anyways that's what I remember about the beach, we would swim aa boys and girls you know my nephews and-we were all we didn't have that feeling that boys should play separately and that we girls should never swim on the beach so you can imagine, so this prepared-you know it gave one a sense of normalization my nephews or such, we would swim and throw ourselves over each other and each one would ride over the back of the other and jump we were like siblings, so that atmosphere made us not be wary of such circumstances where boys and girls are together we were not segregated all our games and our rides on bicycles were aa played together.

Aa other than riding bicycles what games did you play?

Aa you know my sister had [laughs] a small boat Sherifa, she's the adventurer I told you earlier, she'd have our nephew come aboard and he's old he's older than her, the boys would come aand that aa the a family that used to live with us their boy would also be with her, aaand it was mostly boys when we as kids would come they wouldn't- wouldn't allow it, we'd see her on the boat aa but it was only when the tide was low aa we'd go catch crabs you know between the rocks-and I still have a broken toe in the middle because of a rock at sea that hit me really hard.

While you were catching-

I mean while I was walking, it's still broken in the middle since I was a child it's a mark that I was in between the sea rocks, aa when the tide is low umm I mean these were our simple hobbies umm other than riding bicycles aa that's it.

So we could say you were in touch with the environment around you?

Umm the sea.

Aand what else did you do other than- these things, in the-with the- on the beach I mean? With the environment around you?

You know ever since we were little we were by the sea I still swim, and I could swim till God knows where I would swim, because I feel that when I'm in the sea or look at it I feel all my worries disappear, if I'm upset and I went down the beach especially if we were on a vacation our house is by the sea so in vacations I cleanse myself of all my worries when I'm down there for 15 minutes maybe, it's an inborn feeling hmm, you know some people might not like or think the sea is ordinary or they don't swim, but at this age and I still love the sea so much, so even if I see it in the area where we're vacationing, I don't see it as the sea of that area, no I see it as the sea of Sharq, when I see the flood tide and I'm in the car I'd say to my husband Ahmad it feels like I'm in Sharq, so you know it's all memories, how your life is affected and it effects this-this life, it's unbelievable, you know I'm surprised that this year that I am this year that- when I'm on the beach I had the same feeling and when I goaa you know if I'm feeling really upset about one thing or the other I'd say I'm going for a swim and the beach in front of us is private you know, aa I'd go down, and come back a different person altogether, so it's a wonderful thing that a person has a different escape from worries other than pills and [laughs] a psychiatrist.

And you said aa-

Nature.

You were catching aa crabs-

Yes.

What did you do with them after catching them?

Aa it wasn't just- not just crabs no [laughs] you just reminded me, we'd lift the rocks high, I had a rock fall on my foot, we'd lift the rocks and find a lot of "gubabi" I don't what they're called- "gubabi", the ones that look like worms, so we'd collect it for the boys so they could go fishing with it [laughs], and so the ones with us would ca-catch worms so we would catch it with them too and one rock I lifted fell on my foot and it had broken my nail that's what I remember, um we didn't I don't remember any of us you know, catch aa no I mean I didn't ca- ummm I mean I don't like fishing no.

Aand after this accident what happened to your foot did you go to the doctor?

I can't remember I don't think anything was wrong it just fell no nothing was wrong.

Aa let's go back to school aa if you prefer umm, at the beginning you said you went first to Al-Sharqiyyah, could you describe the place to me how it looked aa the classes or how the school looked?

Al-Sharqiyyah is as it was then what is now the aa m aa modern arts museum? The classes are the same, and I am very happy they have kept it as it was, I was once in an exhibition and I entered and was very impressed, they looked at me and were shocked at how old I was! [laughs] So I said no no no no no I'm just remembering how it was I'm kidding, no I don't remember, it just touched me and I remember looking up remembering our teachers going upstairs because their rooms where they live are upstairs-

They lived in the school?

Yes, at school.

Where were the teachers from?

All of them aa most of them were from Palestine, aaand little from Egypt, but mostly from Palestine.

Do you remember a specific teacher for instance that has left an impact on you?

Yes I told you about her the one aa aa of the rhythmic movements they called her-

Was that in primary or secondary school?

No secondary.

B-but you don't remember one from primary school?

Umm, no, not much.

What were the subjects you liked other than-

I don't like studying I'm not much of a [laughs] I didn't like it much-

Just an example-

I barely passed all- I was always not not that much-

But you preferred the arts and-

Yes exactly I was aa excellent in in arts and music and also at being a good girl and a naughty one but it- and sports too, but regular studying I wasn't a slacker but I also wasn't a genius you know.

Aa were there-

But I was fine everything in the middle is good you know [laughs].

Aa were there - you said naughty - were there aa for instance aa- specific things or stories you remember with your friends or classmates at school?

Not really but I umm for instance when we stayed late aa for sports- girls you know they didn't care but my mother used to be too- she was worried about I wasn't thin so I don't know why I don't know, I was thin so maybe she was worried I would die of hunger so she would send macaroni to us, this is something I don't forget, and she would send a pot and the girls at school would wait for Louloua Al-Mulla's macaroni [laughs].

She would send it to school?

Sen- yes because we would stay late, but a sandwich is enough, but no it has to be a pot a big pot aa of macaroni I can't forget it small macaroni and, and sometimes with meat and sometimes with tomatoes, so it was my favorite dish and my classmates too, so it was a feast to us so instead of playing and running we would just eat the aa macaroni and leave,

Since you mentioned this-

This was you know.

Could you aa describe to me a school day aa from the beginning?

It was ordinary you know for example we would sit on the aa the d-that, desk-

Was there a morning assembly?

I think so my memory is aa not as good apparently can you believe I can't remember things very well but I'm sure there was a morning assembly yes but umm not, I don't a-

In secondary school let's say-

Maybe because I was always late [laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs] So in secondary school for example you would go to class and all subjects are taught in the same classroom and a teacher would come?

N-aa-

Was there recess for instance?

No no aa we would change classrooms, we would go to different classrooms it was not the same classroom where you sit and have different teachers coming in no we would change, but it was not much of a change, a teacher would come in and the classes had regular desks so ev every 2 I think or every 3 on a trip like this with a table in front of us and and not chairs aa-

Bench?

Yes a bench, aand if I wasn't mistaken no no not chairs I don't remember chairs.

Aand was there recess in-

Yes they would give us recess aa-

What did you do in recess?

We'd eat of course [laughs].

The food-

We would go to the canteen.

Food is provided by the school?

A canteen canteen yes a canteen, see you reminded me thank you, in the aa the aa when we were in Al-Sharqiyyah yes, they would bring food, and I still love there was this aa lentil soup lentil, aa the lentil soup and they used to bring bread to us bread aa so soft mm aa I think it had cheese or it didn't have cheese I don't know really [laughs] but I remember umm the lentil, the lentil soup yes.

And that was-

In primary school yes.

Provided by the school?

I remember it well, afterwards aa for a while they started bringing meals, rice so we'd sit down to eat and eat amm, rice yes rice and whatnot and food that even the girls didn't want to eat they didn't want it, I can't forget the teacher who told them look at Louloua she's eating and I think I was a gourmand ever since [laughs] that's for sure! I'm sure of that because she said Louloua is eating why aren't you eating then? I can't forget that word, aaand aa aand I remember we used to sleep there.

You mean you took naps at school?

Or I don't know here I too began aa I don't remember we used to sleep because-

In primary school?

Yes then they would take us home, right? Right a-aa aa I think we didn't understand this it was silly we were going home anyways so just take the kids home I don't know maybe companies were trying since that time to make a profit, it's possible.

Aa you mentioned-

The smart ones.

You mentioned food, aa were there dishes your house was known for or dishes you loved eating back then?

Yes definitely.

Other than macaroni.

The food [laughs] no not macaroni.

Our Di- My father's diwan was ori originally you know a- the official reception hall for Kuwait's guests, my father's diwan may God rest his soul, aa every guest had aa there was a guests wing with a kitchen and its own cook an excellent Indian man, he was brought through KOC back then they used to pick cooks and bring them from India, so this cook's job was to cook for the guests only, he was at the Diwaniyyah only and doesn't work anywhere else like a king, aaa, aa that was a period when the guests were brought to my father's, other times we had companies aa you know they would visit the local dealers so foreign guests would visit like they were German aa I don't know I don't remember them well but why German because later aam aa my brother acquired aa what? umm Volkswagen? And some German young men came but we saw them as men you know? They were there to see the company, so we were in the street and our eyes were fixated on them impressed with them for being blonde.

[Al-Ali laughs]

This was part of the we we used to see foreigners you know we used to see plenty of guests and such so we were used to their sight and we were used to being with foreigners I t- I mean I was used to be with non-Kuwaitis because our house was next to the hospital, so Al-Amiri hospital provided housing for doctors, and I knew the girls of at least two families who were with me in school, and on- on the right there were villas rented aa to aa, to doctors all mingling with us with their families.

Foreigners?

No-

Where were they from then?

Most of them Palestinians aa most of them I mean Ahmad Salama may God rest his soul aa Ali Al-Atawnah may God rest his soul aa those are the ones I befriended, I know them I remember the other doctors but I can't remember I used to visit them and they used to visit us in that aa- so we were you know exposed to you know you weren't isolated seeing nobody, I went to visit them and I used to feel how different their house was from ours, you know?

We're going to go back to this-

Yes.

It's very important but I want you to continue-

I'll continue with the house food food-

Aa your father's diwaniyyah.

So aa aa Muthaffar that was his name may God rest his soul, he used to make aa french fries, and he also makes that macaroni- the one brought special to us [laughs] from Muthaffar to the school, aand ammm and the french fries and I still you know my children when they make it aa they would say take it away from our mother [laughs] because that's aa that's my weak spot just give me french fries, aa he used to make french fries and cupcakes, and this stood out the it smelled great and as I'm speaking to you now I can smell it it wasn't even at the house the aa he the the door to his kitchen it had a door opening to the street where we play the long ally I told you about that takes you to the beach, so we would look over Baba's kitchen, we used to call him Baba Muthaffar- Baba Muthaffar aa we used to do this like he was a stranger to us but he actually had his own kingdom in there, and if he chose to bestow a goodie upon you or something that means he was frying something or he would give us things like that, aand we would laugh for giving us cake and we would finish the cake even though it's for the guests visiting the diwaniyyah or something, so cupcakes and french fries were I mean aa ever since I was a child and it was Muthaffar who you know aa now you put potatoes in front of me I would f- finish it it's a real obsession.

Aand you said your father used to host guests from-

Yes.

From abroad-

Yes yes.

Like aa who?

Alright in all honesty I don't remember but I for example may God rest his soul Abdullah Al-Jaber may God rest his soul Ahmad Al-Jaber- aa Ahmad Al-Jaber I never saw him because he died - I was young at the time but I remember when he died you know I remember but like it was a dream, ammm but my uncle may God rest his soul Abdullah Al-Jaber no we had different people every day coming every day, so every day in the afternoon the diwaniyyah courtyard is furnished with seats and this is still happening everyday to this day, they would sit and it's like I am looking at them right now, this is if they had a guest if they had what do you call it but if someone's from Britain came we would turn into a colony of sorts, so you know aa they would be present guests of companies the the owners or something, so you know aaa so we would see action every day in addition to the service staff of the diwaniyyah that's different, there's coffee and tea and Muthaffar in the kitchen making cupcakes, of course they didn't serve the cupcakes to the diwaniyyah, but I mean if they had a banquet, aaand there was a long dining room in the diwaniyyah that was only ruined after the invasion, aa it was also for aa feasts and such.

And did you host women gatherings too your mother for example?

Oh definitely! The thing that's most imprinted in my mind is that we had [clears her throat] in the entrance to the Haram (women's wing) the one called Al-Haram aa there were two rooms one on the right and one on the left aa a salon, a reception salon with couches, aa this was always used by the family either my older brother's wife or my mother but my brother's wife is the more sociable and you know she's younger too, so there was always banquests- there were always aa women the aa-

The neighbors?

The doctors, there were always teachers, there were always guests strangers to us, there was always this thing, the rooms would be full, and they were always entertaining like a reception to the women who are visiting or but I just remember the teachers and doctors and foreign guests aa-

And was this happening all the time?

It continued all the time all the time all the time all the time, and I remember they always played music and would ask me to come and dance [laughs].

Because you love the arts? [laughs].

No because that's how it was in the past, in the past in Kuwait you know they would put music on and everyone would dance, yes I swear by God almighty and I remember being asked all the time to dance and I was always ready to dance, so that was the entertainment, aa I remember my mother used to visit amm, what's her name the aa, Dickson? And she once took me with her and I'm still impressed by their house I still remember it.

Why were you impressed?

Aaa you know the foreigners' houses were different than ours, you know the atmosphere was different.

What was different to you as a child?

No I mean it was cozier aa they had pictures hung on the wall aa other than the- aa their taste is different in their furniture that's for one, while even the two rooms I told you about the reception ones the ones in the entrance aa they were furnished with couches aaand a cabinet there aa with a radio which is a record player it's a big radio so there wasn't a small one but a big one like a big desk which had a record player with radio and it played records you know, so that was the style of the rooms, and curtains w- OK curtains but not the- to this day, our furniture is different than theirs our taste is different than theirs, so maybe that was a factor that helped me be open you know and love to mingle I love to be you know-

Acceptance of the other?

Mmm.

Wha-

This had an influence on my life.

What could you tell me about it?

A lot, aa they we-

Your relationship with them?

Yes most of my relationships were with them because they were neighbors, and they were our neighbors, and their lives as a people you know aa definitely of a different culture right? A different culture aa a different lifestyle and cuisine, and I still love cuisines that aa are not Kuwaiti, if you give me rice I wouldn't care much for it, but give me like [laughs] like I said earlier a potato or Hummus or any of those dishes I love, I'm known for having such a taste, rice and what not our food I mean no, and by God I now at this moment remember why, why I like it because maybe I'm, because ever since I was little ummm you know-

Mixed with them.

Mixed with- I never had lunch at their house, they would eat at ours.

Who were these families?

Aa Ahmad Salama Dr. Ahmad Salama and I'm still friends with her now Fawziyyah God bless her, Fawziyyah Ahmad Salama, she's still my friend and a few weeks ago I was at her house, and her food is still delicious [laughs], aand aa Al-Ja'ouni Al-Ja'ouni family, and Al-Atawna family.

Aa they used to live close to you in Sharq?

Close to us yes yes in Sharq.

And they were doctors?

Doctors all of them doctors yes.

Aa what do you remember from aa the times you visited them or what did you do then?

Umm-

I mean did you exchange visits?

Aa yes but I used to visit more, aa I don't know why I used to visit more maybe they did visit me but I don't remember but you know I used to visit them more, aaa Al-Ja'ouni because I used to visit her more after school because I used to study with her as she was really smart [laughs].

Was she your friend?

Yes, she was really smart and can memorize really well and ever since I was little I never liked history I never liked it because it was all about learning by heart and like I told you I still don't like it and I don't like learning by heart or memorizing names and can't memorize anything, not because I'm getting older OK there are people older than me and they can remember well but now you're really reminding of how I don't even like history because it involves learning by heart, [laughs] so, aa [coughs] I'm sorry excuse me.

So you used to go to her?

So I would go to Al-Ja'ouni and have a good time because at the time we never knew of Lemonade with mint, her mother used to make lemonade with mint that I can still feel my taste- its taste in my mouth, and she used to make umm aa what? Fawaregh, our lunch today is Fawaregh so I said OK and kept quiet-

[Al-Ali laughs]

Fawaregh they knew that they were serving Fawaregh for lunch but they were afraid I wouldn't want it so I said OK, I ate it and it was delicious, when I was done eating they haven't told me yet so they asked me do you know what that was? Intestines, so I said yes so I ate it and it's delicious I don't care, aa you know? So this you know aa, the mixing with other cultures and their traditions can greatly influence your character-

Aa-

You grow to love others, I mean there are people who never met- the opposite is true too, the opposite too if you see foreigners who never lived or mixed with Arabs don't, you'd notice the see Arabs different, but one who had lived in an Arab country or worked there or they feel th you know love and, more.

Aa this personal experience you said has enriched aa aa your experience of aa mixing with others but how the society at the time in general? Were there a sense of acceptance of th the other aa the Palestinian community in Kuwait for example?

No it was not the aa norm norm and there was no unnecessary mixing but the aa the neighbors with each other you know you wouldn't feel there's you would feel the other, aa but it- it was guaranteed that if there's a Kuwaiti woman with a Palestinian neighbor they would definitely be close, because they were families of aa I mean ther- they were cultured- highly refined, they would either be a doctor or professor at the university or not at the university I mean a teacher, and teachers were different back then than teachers nowadays, a huge difference, so you'd find old families if you ask any of the women aa of my generation or even younger or older you'd find that they had close relationships if they had a teacher and they continued-

Neighbors.

Or neighbors or, acquaintances of theirs I mean like a friendship.

And you stayed in Sharq until what age?

Until aa the aam, the, I really don't know when we moved to-she-we moved to Al-She'eb because the house was started to like I told you earlier it was an old building it was impossible to restore while we were living in it, umm, I was-

You mean-

Not in highschool-

Before?

In Secondary school.

In secondary school you moved to Al-She'eb?

Yes, umm.

How was Al-She'eb at the time? I mean mo-

It was a modern house, two floors, a swimming pool, yes, so it had a good facility where they're all in the swimming pool, so it was a move I personally don't remember being upset a lot because the house was really beautiful, you know it had a garden and a swimming pool and there were ki- we weren't kids but it was a good and different outlet for us.

How did the change affect you as a, as a child I mean what did you feel you lost with that house in Sharq?

Aa no Sharq remain as memories like a dream, because I was little, I mean I don't remember a lot of things I remember the I don't know yes I remember for sure but you know, there are details I don't recall because I was little.

And your house in Al-She'eb were you in a neighborhood were there houses similar to yours near you?

Yes yes th- people were starting to move everybody moved, my brother's family for instance moved out.

That was in the 1960s?

We all moved out, yes.

Almost?

Mm.

Was aa Al-She'eb full of houses or was it?

Yeah no no they were neighbors and there were houses but it was packed like the present but the modular areas were being aa built and lived in.

Were the houses similar in style to the houses of Sharq?

Noo.

For instance the courtyard in the middle or how was it could you describe it to me?

T t t no no no the house was modern ordinary and boring with a staircase rooms and living rooms like houses today.

Mo it it the old style was not kept?

No no it's completely irrelevant because people were experiencing a boom unfortunately and that's something that really upset me, there were things pieces at our house pieces tables and chairs I wish we preserved them and brought them with us to Al-She'eb, everything changed and was discarded discarded! Alas! But nobody was thinking of that at the time- our mothers never thought of that and we were young and that's the thing that upsets me because I remember we had built in wardrobes, and all the wo-wardrobe was part mirror and an all engraved part, I mean couldn't a carpenter remove it for example? The wooden mandat? My sister is the only one who poor thing after she graduated high school began to realize and she was the older one she preserved the chandal wood but it was too late the house was apparently ransacked, we didn't know and they travelled abroad to study and all of them d-mou-I mean we all s- I was the only one at home, so I mean along with my mother aand my two sisters studying abroad one in Switzerland the other in Britain aand no one thought of preserving this and I think it was a period where the smart ones seized the opportunity and took the-

But was this a thing that-

[Al-Mulla coughs]

Was common at the time that aa most families aa-

I don't think so.

Left their houses aa in its old style aand-

As it was yes.

And built new houses?

Yes that was common all of it, my brother's house was the same all the houses of the people who moved out and relocated some went to Shuwaikh others to aa, aa you know the areas that were available, so aa that was but I feel sad for Sharq that we did not take our things the furn- I mean it is now priceless.

Aand you moved to Al-She'eb?

Yes.

Aa were you in secondary school?

Ahm.

What secondary school did you go to?

Secondary school I told you aa, no I could be mistaken why? Because secondary school I was closer, I was in Sharq what's the name of that school oh dear me, if I can just find the school's name, I was probably in high school it had to be high school-

High school.

Because I don't remember going there from Al-She'eb no so this means-

Which high school did you go to?

What a memory huh?

Which high school?

Al-Murqab there was no other-

Al-Murqab.

There was no other-

Aa do you remember how the school looked?

Uff yes Al-Murqab aa yes it was the same a yard aaand classes that's it, it was not you know the building was ordinary unlike Sharq, Sharq had a magnificent gate, and it's sad I don't know where the Sharq gate of the Sharqiyyah school went, the gate was magnificent aaa the building had style, Al-Murqab was a modern building ordinary modern-

You mean the school had a modern style?

Modern yes like all the ordinary schools, this high school was Al-Murqab.

Aa how different to you was high school than secondary school the the subjects was it more serious than secondary school or?

At high school we started with either Science or Literature majors, so I chose literature, because amm I don't like science as science requires learning by heart and what not it needs remarkable intelligence [laughs], I chose literature and I was good at it I mean I was good I mean fine I didn't have any problems, aa but this caused me troubles in college-

How?

When we were sent to study abroad on a scholarship to Beirut I was a literature major and the curriculum you know or the ministry had not thought of that, that this student has graduated from a literature major the system had no equivalent, so in Beirut the un- mmm the Beirut College for Women, the name has changed now, aa, you enter the first two years were fine we all passed, the third year they begin I mean I finished all the subjects that that had n- had no science, but as a freshman you begin you have to take science subjects you have to but I did not study that in high school so what am I going to do now? I couldn't it was impossible, so I couldn't continue, I couldn't I can't it was not possible, I either drop out or continue with the scholarship and keep failing and it's fine, but I didn't like that I wanted to continue because I felt it was not right, so my sister was in Cambridge studying she's the middle one Sherifa the brave one.

The adventurer.

The adventurer and she was punting there no one punts, you know punting right? She'd would take the punt back and forth, she drives a car too she had a car and was really keeping busy, she would do everything, she had done everything in her life she's streetwise, streetwise and smart I mean, so I said since she's in Cambridge and there's aa there's a school called, umm, it's very famous because it's a t- aa it specializes in languages, aa not languages but English language an English language major you would graduate to teach English language, so I thought this is good I love languages and I love English and literature, and I had English literature so I thought I loved it and I wanted literature, aa I went for two years aa, how could I forget it and I was aa anyways if you its name or it doesn't matter, umm, I studied and I had plenty of fun and I learned a lot, and I was well-read and I was happy that it'll be over and you'd be trained by all teachers, from Cambridge or Oxford, there was no ordinary teacher, and for the aa the exam in Cambridge at the university not at that school, anyways I received my certificate and came to Kuwait happy, but then came the umm, they told me no this is not a university degree to us it's not accredited, if you want to teach English you have to have a real university degree so I told him this is better than any university degree how is that possible? Anyways I just sat and couldn't do what, but s- I'm sorry before before I went to Cambridge aa I had in Beirut I was I'm sorry-

No no on the contrary!

Because I digressed a lot.

Aa not on the contrary we can get back to it it's better yes.

I digressed, umm before that aa I said I I loved the arts and decoration and I love there was an institute aaa for decoration arts and decor, Saleebi that's what it was called in Beirut, I joined and you graduate in two years with a certificate in decoration, an interior decorator, and I did it and stayed there I even lived with the family of the owner of the because my mother was concerned where where I'll be living and with whom I mean there was a hostel in college, but where am I going to live here? I stayed with the same family, anyways aa they, I got the certificate but then ummm umm I didn't ummm I mean I didn't get to use it because it doesn't qualify you for a job job you know it was for me for my personal benefit yes, but umm it wasn't you know going to qualify me to apply for a job after- I wasn't convinced I wasn't convinced, here I went to Cambridge, so aa-

I'm going to go back to the time before Beirut? Aa in hi- in high school you know as aa let's say as a teenager how was your personality made in high school what were the things that influenced you?

I was very social, I loved my friends a lot, and I remember always planning trips and invite them, we had Al-Ghazal club, it it was in Abu Halifa, and we'd plan a special trip and take my friends and go to Al-Ghazal club-

In high school?

Yes.

Aa could you aa tell me about Al-Ghazal club?

Yes Al-Ghazal club was a villa, with its facilities a beach a swimming pool and stable, to my friends you know aa I was bragging you know OK.

Where was it located?

Abu Halifa, and it's still in Abu Halifa I don't know what happened to it but I know umm definitely since the invasion it was no longer, not working, umm and I was-

How was the club I mean did it have aa certain memberships?

Yes of course and not everybody, and then the people there you know you want to keep the families there safe with their children you don't want anyone to join, there were rejections too and the administration was strict it was not a little you know.

How was the atmosphere in Al-Ghazal club?

Aan- aa there were families who were raised together in Al-Ghazal club, like aa you know they know each oth- now when I'm this ho- aa I know how to now now now while I'm g- aa are you related to Modhi Al-Mulla? I told him I'm her aunt, how is she? They were all of our Arab brothers because it was like an outlet for them, there were very few Kuwaitis because Kuwaitis had houses on the beach, they had no need for it, unless they wanted to take their children horseback riding or teach them how to ski, water ski, they would go but you know as aa they were mostly non-Kuwaitis, ar- are you related to and I told him I was her aunt and he said how is she and what not aaa the good old days the good old days of Al-Ghazal club.

The club.

Al-Ghazal club was then you know Kuwait was very beautiful back then.

What were the activities you did with your friends when you invited them to the club?

Of course none of them knew how to swim, no one swam surely they wouldn't swim, but we'd go to lunch and what not I don't know what a- there was a restaurant there and such I would pay for them like I'm showing off.

[Al-Ali laughs] what did you eat for instance?

I really don't remember but everything they had was delicious because to be honest Modhi was the manager and she hired experienced people, aand a sh- she was strict, and strong and didn't joke around, even with us as her family no joking around the rules are the rules you have to respect aa the club's rules, respect the club's rules, so the food was delicious aa the beach was for walks no one went for a swim it was just like that, and that's all I mean umm this is what I remember it was a special trip for when I passed, I invited them there, aand it was in high school, and this I remember very well we were a big group in a number of full cars umm.

Did you focus in high school on the arts as well and have your interests change?

Aa yes no s- sports and arts, sports and arts are po-in- mm I mean I was a good student at school you know I wasn't a slacker [laughs] so I was you know aa but these sports and arts are the ones that can create this social atmosphere, playing together and creating friendships aa a sense of familiarity you know imagine if you had a friendship from the time you were little to this day, this isn't easy, do you see our children doing it? No they don't have that, their friends are the ones in front of them, a friend from a long time passed is rarely seen, so we in Kuwait at least my generation or the generation of the everybody from my generation, aa all their friendships are from their school days.

Aand in studying literature what did you study or what were you interested in the field of literature?

I love the English language I really love English and I'll tell you why I love English and this is- I said it a few times, aa my father when I was little used to bring a tutor named Ibrahim Skadar, I can't forget him he's a famous person and I think he's mentioned in history because I think he had aa you know I don't know he had a position in the British Embassy, he used to come to me aa in the Diwaniyyah, and I would go there and sit in the room in the Diwaniyyah which is still present there used to be a table in the middle now there's no table in the middle, and they would put chairs for us but there were no chairs so they would bring them from the dining room, and I would sit there all noon with him teaching me English, in addition to you know my mother used to- in high school there was no no not one institute- there was an Egyptian teacher who used to teach us French, and we used to call her misses as- aa qu'est-ce que c'est, because it was all qu'est-ce que c'est, she would come in and ask what's the matter with you? [laughs] what's happening-

[Al-Ali laughs]

W- well, my mother would take my in a car, of course she wasn't driving for sure, a driver and she would take me to Al-Ahmadi, there was one French teacher in Al-Ahmadi, she would take me and sit there the poor thing waiting for me for an hour! Of course she would come inside the house not in the car, and the teacher would be teaching me French for an hour and she wasn't obligated to do so and neither was I, but she used to say that since you love this here's a teacher who would improve your French, to improve you huh, and indeed I was good at high school when they gave us French you know, uhh and I recall these two things imprinted in my mind that made me love languages, I joined the French Institute and continued to study French and speak French and English which made me enroll in a literature major, can you imagine that! This is something simple that parents do which leaves a mark in yourself and your character and in your hobbies and your future, I see sometimes now when I speak a certain language or someone who speaks a language other than their native one they're the most comfortable in their lives or sometimes they can be maybe happy, so umm you know umm.

Aa and after high school aa aa you went to Beirut?

I went to Beirut for the two years completing the-

Was that through a scholarship from the?

Yes a scholarship from aa the state the government yes.

Do you remember who you went with?

Yes certainly this I do remember a little [laughs], I was with a ro- aa, my roommate you know we slept in the same room because no not every person was assigned a room of their own, we lived inside inside the college itself, the dorm was part of the college and this is I mean it's from the government, but in Cairo if there weren't no housing was available in the- college they were provided with housing, they all lived in one building, aaa Nafisa Al-Nafisi Hind Al-Shalfan Anisa Al-Shalfan aa Mai Al-Sheikh Yousef was there before us and she had an incident with us, Mai Al-Sheikh Yousef, mm, from Bahrain there were the Khanji girls with us, but in Kuwait -Fedha Al-Ghan- Fedha Yaqoub Al-Ghanim, and we still meet every once I mean we always see each other we always get together I talk to Fedha almost daily on the phone, aa those were with me-

So you left Kuwait-

And we went there, yes.

You went to Beirut aa was this your first time-

Ooh.

You were alone?

Yes.

Without your family?

Yes.

How did you feel?

It wasn't like Beirut it w- we'd cry I mean we were homesick, I don't know a feeling of loneliness and such but because we were a big group it made things easier on us, aaa Mai Al-Sheikh Yousef was there before us mm I don't know how many years before or she graduated a year after one year, aa she also had a beautiful role in my life, aa because she introduced us as students to the Arab Cultural club, and this club we'd finish in the afternoon and have nothing else to do so we'd go there and listen to lectures, aa conferences.

What was the club a part of? Was it under a?

Aaa the group were all alumni and politicians and, and all the politicians in Lebanon came out of this club- it was considered a club o- a club in an apartment, a regular apartment club- and it's still there by the way in Abdulaziz street aa in Beirut off Al-Hamra, it's still there and when we go there we pass by it and see it, the club is still-

What were their events-

It was amazing all the politicians came out of it and it built our characters, it built my character, I used to go there to listen to mingle and discuss and listen at the time we were fascinated! We'd listen to talks we didn't know [laughs].

Like what?

It was all politics, politics culture science and intellectuals, umm I don't remember it exactly but I remember while we were sitting listeing to something a- we'd understand something and other things no, but we were invested in the club so much that the first protest they organized was when the aa aggression on you know the war in Palestine they went out in support of Palestine, and we went out with them, what, what is this fearlessness how, we went out, and we all still remember this protest went out on all of us girls, the Bahraini girls and all of us the s-

How was the protest I mean describe it to me.

Aa it was a protest we walked in a st- we came out of the club and walked in a street until we reached the university in Bliss street you know it was not not too far, that's it aa that's what I remember but nothing happened, but I remember aa a young man they were carrying over their shoulders and he was chanting slogans, and this young man became a advisor in and we always laugh saying how could this young man we thought of as of little importance and carried has become an advisor for the government the one before Al-Hariri, so aa a lot of famous political figures we know came out of the club, you see.

How did you feel as a you know a young Kuwaiti woman participating in such events?

It was nothing like it was normal you know?

In such an atmosphere.

No aa never not even our parents said no to us, it happened that aa we needed financial aid so the club said we're going to organize an open day aa an open day and we take the sports club in Al-Rawsha and the club is still there aand we did as they said aa, what? What is it called? An open day huh, one would be selling the o- Like aa you know people would come in and buy stuff and such and t- it was to collect money, and the photograph I have photographs, myself Nafisa Anisa Hind and the two Khanji girls we joined the this that, myself and Nafisa aa coffee we were making coffee, and selling coffee, Khanji girls were selling Tabouleh [laughs], on a desk like so standing and selling, and we weren't in any way embarrassed to do that, and we were happy, and we were s- No we were even serious if you see the photograph seriously! We weren't you know happy or anything no no no no, anyways, it was a thing ca- something came up and I remember it and feel happy and always talk about is that when they counted the money boxes they found the box for co- the coffee box got the highest sales [laughs], the Tabouleh, someone said and we still know him you know we're close but the poor thing has Alzheimer's now, he said I mean I aa drank the coffee I could drink it how could they have made money in the box? The Tabouleh was barely a t- barely edible because it was very dry how could it make more than- but they were joking that these are Khaleeji girls people are definitely going to buy from them, because it was unbelievable that we were standing out there back then, it was 63 you know, they were selling standing in the sun selling things for the Palestinian cause, it was very touching for them, and this was out there back then, it was 63 you know, they were selling standing in the sun selling things for the Palestinian cause, it was very touching for them, and this was you know aa from that moment I began to- the feeling of you know towards the Arab world was absorbed from these lectures I used to attend, that we're Arab and Arab nationalism, aa I mean I began w- I mean to sympathize and be active in these causes.

Even when-

That affect the Arab world.

Even when you came back to Kuwait were these- were you feeling this aan-

Sure.

Have you experienced it here in Kuwait?

Certainly certainly you know I'm [laughs] when I came back to Kuwait to complete my university education, so you see how far my journey was?

No before aa we'll get back to this, but-

But I haven't done it wrong, I was undecided until aa interior decoration, two years of English aa a certificate of proficiency of English language and the certificate is with me it's not you know, then afterwards aa in Beirut I met my husband in the aa students union, and the students union to me was you know aa another shift in the cooperative work between aa you know male and female students and such the atmosphere was beautiful very nice like a family, so aa Ahmad was in the American University and we met each other.

When you were studying in Beirut?

Beirut yes, aand aa what's it called aa no in the univ- it wasn't the first time, no it was when-

The two years you studied?

The two years yes, aa because he transferred from America to aaa no he was in America but couldn't continue, aa I mean he couldn't because aa it was for different reasons you know I don't need to say it here, at least health issues no one would doubt what the health reasons are, so he was delayed a little, aand by the time he was treated and became better he just didn't want to go back to America as if America caused it aa his chest was a little unwell, aa aa he enrolled in AUB, the American University of Beirut, and here we came to meet in the Students Union, and at the students union could you believe it I know a lot of people who got married through the students union in Beirut and they're still happy by God how is that possible? Aa I mean may God bless them with happiness, so such was the spirit and atmosphere-

What were the- aa events for instance organized by the Students Union in Beirut?

Aa of course-

And how did you come to know of them?

We- No because every student there has to go to the students union.

Every Kuwaiti student has to-?

Yes yes aa my classmates were Fedha and Anisa and th- they were still at the Arab University, they continued aa you know umm they go umm the girls at AUB they all used to go, all of AUB the one in in the female students were a lot aa Samira Al-Humaidhi aa Sabeeka Al-Rezaqa umm, if I see the photographs I would remember them but you know yes what's it called who else was there, Fatima Hayat I'm trying to recall the na, I mean this was a big group they were at AUB and their brothers for instance Abdullah Al-Humaidhi Samira's brother so she would go with him, the girls used to go, we-

It was normal for women and men-

Uff! We had a lot of events organized together.

Events like what?

Evening poetry readings for example aa mmmm a day like aa the national day, the Kuwaiti national day umm I forgot which day it was that we had that year, we had a celebration on the stage aa the men were playing music and dancing and what not- it's not dancing per se more like a mess of movements but it was a fun time, aa we planned trips to the cedars to the cedars we went together in a bus all together and there were no issues on the contrary aa I mean I see young men now aa we loved each other like b- siblings siblings siblings, I swear to you just like siblings can you believe it? This feeling I have for Faisal Al-Muttawa or Abdullah Al-Humaidhi aa or Naser Al-Saad or you know? These names I'm mentioning? Aa what's his name aa Al-Farhan Abdul-Muhsin Al-Farhan, h- I mean I mean they definitely see us the same way as sisters! Sisters I mean we really loved each other like siblings, aand umm you know some of them married their classmates and other like myself for instance, aand-

You got married aa at the same period?

No no no no with with aa a long life [laughs].

Aa so afterwards you studied at the you said umm the Institute of Decorations and Arts?

Hmm.

In-

Beirut.

In Beirut, where was it in Beirut?

Aa in a street aa a street that branches off and is very close to Bliss street Bliss the one where the American University is located.

Aa who was with you-

And the the the union aa was across the street they had an apartment there you know.

Were there Kuwaitis with you in the institute?

No.

Aa what was the curriculum and what have you studied there or what did you like?

Aa there was an artist teaching us he was renowned and he had a gallery in Beirut he a- he taught us art but I wasn't into art or painting, but he was part of the course, what I like is decor decor, so I mean this is what's it called and it really was-

But you did not continue studying the same field?

No, no, I changed like I told you earlier I love language so it was of no use to me.

So what made you aa-

And I majored to teach but the university here.

After returning from Beirut to aa to Kuwait aa did you stay in Kuwait for a while before leaving to Cambridge?

No no no immediately, immediately I wasn't going to waste time education was already taking too long, no no no enough d- aa the year after I was in Cambridge, because my sister was there and it was easy and and it was enough already I mean umm it's a language that I love and and this was an English proficiency so it was like an accredited aa certificate my classmates were teaching but here in Kuwait I couldn't I was in touch with one of my classmates and she told me I'm teaching and I said no I'm just staying home [laughs].

So you went to Britain, aa after Beirut-

Yes yes.

You went to Britain-

And that's the two years I spent.

Aa w- what difference did you notice aa between Beirut and Britain in the aa aa the socializing with Kuwaiti students and Arab culture that you mentioned?

Yes no no this was a major change very very different- it was completely devoid of it, no atmosphere no Arab community and no no Ku- nothing Arab, the the town aa was a university town aa it was a town full of students Cambridge is small, I mean maybe my being with my sister held me from socializing with the others, and my sister was really serious when she'd enter the m- that she just studies studies and studies, and I just sit there doing nothing, aa actually in Cambridge there's nothing other than studying aa there was nothing else at all.

What did you like about it? Other than studying?

Nothing, nothing I don't miss it.

Completely different than Beirut.

Yes Beirut is different Beirut is an Arab country and we the male and female students with my friends were all enjoying the atmosphere and we were having fun going about and such no it was really really different really- there it was just studying.

Did you prefer studying there to studying in Beirut?

No-

With regards to studying?

No no never never never no no never I just graduated and came back I wanted to be done with it, no no I wasn't no I don't even feel like going back at all, it wasn't bad but it was ordinary like a European town and you're far from home, there were no fun activities- add to that that there were no Arabs in Cambridge- I mean there were no Kuwaitis, myself and my sister were the only ones.

You were the only Kuwaitis in th-?

Yes yes there weren't any she'd go to the university and come back, if she had time she'd go punting and come back, aaand I aa I come back from aaa school umm in the afternoon? From morning to afternoon and that's it.

You don't remember thing like-

There weren't any social life.

Th- things you did with your sister social or-

No nothing.

Things you loved?

No no no nothing it was ordinary b- aa a dull life, it wasn't beautiful nor bad but it had nothing I mean umm-

And you came back to Kuwait afterwards you stayed there for two years then came back to Kuwait.

Hmm, that's it I came back thinking I was ready to do it all that all schools would want to receive me, I don't know why I thought I had to go to a private school- I didn't think, at the time, I mean when they said no aaaand the equivalency and whatnot I just said enough enough enough, I mean am I really into teaching? I just decided I don't want it, I learnt for myself, my language skills are good so that's all there is to it, aaa it's not like I didn't care that I would get a job you know? No it mattered to me to learn more, so I felt like OK why don't I go study English Literature if the requirements are just a university degree for any job you want I'll go to a university and study, and indeed I enrolled at the university to study English literature and graduated-

Which university?

Kuwait.

Kuwait University English literature?

Mm mm here were no universities at the time-

Aa what year aa, approximately was this?

70?

70?

Seve-Seventy two seventy o- seventy one seventy one, wait, seventy one.

You studied English literature.

English literature and I graduated.

Aa who was I mean how was Kuwait university at the time?

Amazing, very well, we were only girls it wasn't co-ed you know, at the college, aand-

Where was the-aa?

Where was it? Our classes were I forgot [laughs], where did we go to class? umm, it wasn't here not here not Khaldiyyah.

Al-Edailiyyah?

Keifan.

Keifan?

Yes, Keifan the girl the girls college in Keifan.

Aaand-

But we I was aa always at the what do you call it I'm always in the union, too.

The students union.

The students yes yes yes yes-

How was the students union here?

The students union was very active, it was very good and I thought of them too as my brothers, aa we would socialize with them in the meetings and elections and events, aand aaa we in the girls college I was with Shaikha Al-Naibary and at the time I was with her on the board of directors, I participated aa in the first aam, the first aa conference organized by the students union- it was the first conference I participate in and sitting next to me was Dr. Khalifa Al-Wugayyan, so even Khalifa Al-Wugayyan used to say this story I just remembered, he'd tell Fahad Oohh you're going to meet Louloua she's- she ran and won more votes than I [laughs], she was the first I was second [laughs] in the students union, aand umm, he was-

Who were the teachers?

And we were quite strong can you believe that? Aa and I can say this now Mohammad Al- aa, Mohammad aa, the husband of Baqsami what's his name? Mohammad aa-

Al-Qadiri?

Al-Qadiri, he was aa he, aand and umm aa I mean to us I mean he wasn't umm very aa devoted to the I can't say anything else but I don't know why and if you ask me why I tried to you know lobby against him to remove him, I don't know, I don't know why, he knows and he said it Louloua Al-Mulla made me lose.

And he was at Kuwait university with you?

He was with us in the students union he was a candidate, and I can't forget that I used to run around an- the theatre was in- the steps I'd run around telling people not to vote for Mohammad, and they believed me I don't know why they did [laughs], and he said nobody ma-made me lose but her, that's not my problem [laughs].

And you won?

It wasn't so I could win-

Or was this in another round?

It wasn't so I could win no I had already won, but we didn't want Mohammad in the electoral list [laughs] but I don't know if I have to say it or not [laughs] but he knows, what matters-

How was the atmosphere at the university I mean the lectures for instance aa where were the professors from?

Actually there were Kuwaitis I remember Sulaiman aa Al-Shatti? To this day whenever I see him I tell him no one made me love Arabic but you, there are teachers who affect you and make you love the subject I don't believe children when they say that I don't like this I don't like this teacher I told him, you made me love it, aa ca- but he was a recent graduate and was teaching at the time, Sulaiman Al-Shatti, aaand aa and we had a professor aa of aa English literature he was really clever he was Egyptian, very elegant extremely and I mean we really really really loved the subject with him, and I used to love to read and you know aa-

What did you love reading?

Aa you know like the literature they gave us.

Novels?

Yes novels and such, aa but unfortunately I now like moving around than sitting to read, and I think this probably contributed to me not reading a lot, because aa no- I work, the nature of my work require movement not sitting and s- as I told you I don't like staying still and even at home if I'm upset a lot I would have had organized the entire storage room and cleaned it and all I would have had the kitchen done and what else the drawers, you should now by then that there's a storm going on in my mind, so if I have that I would release it in work, if I'm working I don't sit down when I'm busy- now look at the offices here there's no office for me, we don't have an office for the president none, there are offices for the secretaries that's it, we don't have offices, no-

Did work aa with the students union boost this feeling did you enjoy the movement and the-

No it was a continuation of my life, a continuation of what I told you about about Beirut how it was aa I came to love aa listening and trying to understand aa I came to know of a lot of causes a cause like a cause that is pan-Arab and the community is asking for solidarity with the cause, aa your country might ask you to stand by it I mean you can't be passive, you have to work.

What have you done with the student union I mean you mentioned Beirut and the causes how were the causes here?

Well see aa umm we didn't have a lot lot of events as a a union, the events were the annual conference, and you-the elections and such but I mean aa it was work work on a lev- because you see first aa it's not like when you're together abroad, here if they're doing something we all have to go there t- we meet then Shaikha and I would go back to the college or something like that I don't know it wasn't even aa the socializing if we were together at the same place would have probably made the events better and the meetings would be more fruitful, so it wasn't very active I'm telling you.

But what were the causes you were interested in for instance?

I can't- umm I don't remember this period can you believe it not much, I don't remember a lot of it I don't remember, I can't even remember an event we organized other than the elections for example, nothing.

Alright eve- events at the university?

Everyone was busy with their studies.

What aa-

Unlike now where everybody's cheating they're not busy, I swear to God! They're cheating now so they're sitting in cafes, but we used to study, I mean we spent all our time at the university so I don't think we had aa enough time to do extra events, because we also had activities in the c- the college, other activities by ourselves I mean.

Like what were the college activities?

We were, a-sports match, a match.

Women's?

Women's yes, a lot-

Have you played in aa these matches?

Yes, yes yes yes.

What were the sports?

Aa we played basketball, aand aa aand gymnastics, that's why I was envious of what's her name because she jumps higher than me-

On the pommel horse?

Because I'm short and she's tall, aand umm-

And you used to play matches against aa I mean-

But-

Other countries for instance or?

No no no no at the- at the university not a lot, I used to play tennis for example, and I played a match in- the match that is you know played played in the tennis court at the university here in Khaldiyyah, aand I had outdone Fahad Al Wazzan in tennis.

The games were co-ed?

No, I mean I won the college cup and he didn't he's my partner I mean he took the boys' cup so- I mean-

You've outdone him?

It's considered that I had outdone him, may he rest in peace he was a good young man, umm aa yes I took the university aa cup in tennis-

How was aa I mean the fami-

Tennis where did I learn to love it? From Beirut, it's true that I haven't completed my education there but I acquired the love for volunteer work my openness to the world and interaction with the issues and causes in the Arab world, my feelings towards knowledge and love of knowledge wanting to learn wanting to socialize wanting to work and wanting to give, all from Beirut including tennis, for tennis we had an old teacher at the college, an old really really old maybe in her 80s but she's very active and strong her name was Mrs. Stew I can't forget her name because of how influential she was, strict tennis too, I mean if she hit the ball to you and you're distracted just leave the court, so we were afraid of her, that's when I came to love tennis and it's a gain you know, I still play tennis and my son too aa he played matches but they're not d- difficult professional ones but he could- aa play ma- he could play in aa events that are you know these aand he plays plays well and w- he still plays every other day here in Kuwait, so he's the same he says he learnt- to love tennis from my mother because she loves tennis and I would take them with me and even my daughter plays tennis but not as much aa you know, of course the boy is always umm making time while a mother would make time to care for her children more, so in the summer vacation we all play together, all play tennis-

And-

Myself and my children.

And when you were in the university aa, I mean was your family supportive aa of you? Do you remember them being-

Definitely.

They supported you to-

Uff certainly.

With sports and working with the union?

Certainly, they support me they wouldn't rebuff or say no and don't be late and this can't happen or don't go- don't go to meetings at the university with bo- if this happened we wouldn't have worked at all, no my father despite being, you know his title is Mulla- Mulla Saleh Al-Mulla, Mulla but he's not the religious Mulla but more of aa an intellectual and they'd come to him to resolve a lot of problems and such so he was really wise, aand aa but he was open-minded, open-minded that when I went to play he knew I was going to the beach he knows I pretended to sleep wake up wake up alright wake up wake up-

[Al-Ali laughs]

Alright? He knows I'm going to the beach but he wouldn't yell at me he wouldn't force me to sit by him aa to read to him or to read more or stay longer, aa he knows we were swimming with my nephews that my nephews and I are all together he never said don't go to the beach, that it's public for everyone to see, it's true no one was around us but it's still a beach so the idea is there, so that's the open-mindedness and that's this is what made us have confidence-

You mentioned religious extremism was there extremism in umm- or you mentioned religion, was there extremism in the 60s in Kuwait in general?

Definitely it was there definitely, but I haven't seen it in my family, my father like I told you was the oldest you can't find anyone older, he was probably the ol- he was probably the strictest person in Kuwait, in his age and as you know this but to me he was never upset with us, some people would cane their children, get up get up to pray Fajr prayers- I know families like this, get up to pray Fajr, nothing here, have you prayed dear? Yes I prayed, that's it, nothing forced, I probably didn't pray-

But for example-

But he wouldn't force us.

But for example at the university have you seen extremism among female students or-

It wasn't in our time it was normal back then, normal very normal-it wasn't- it was more co-ed I mean it wasn't like this.

How many years have you studied English literature at Kuwait university?

It was 4 years then I graduated you know I didn't drop out every two years [laughs] no I graduated.

You graduated from Kuwait University.

Yes.

How was the graduation back then I mean s-?

Honestly it was difficult to me, difficult difficult difficult because when I came back I got married right.

Ah you got married or- when you came back from Beirut?

Yes yes.

before going enrolling at Kuwait university?

Before enrolling at Kuwait university or during my time at the university too, here I married in 1970.

Aand you had a wedding?

Aa no at the time may God rest his soul aa Bader Al-Mulla had just passed away that's my brother Abdullah's son aa so we weren't going to you know it was just a small family ceremony aa I didn't make a big wedding no, so aa even the catering was from aa Al-Ghazal club [laughs]

[Al-Ali laughs]

The cake and the profiterole.

Aa could you describe the cake to me? Do you remember it?

The cake profiterole, you know profiterole? Profiterole is a round cake with cream inside so they made the cake of profiterole on what's it called, it was from Al-Ghazal club-

Was it special back then?

Very, of course at the time profiterole was just what's it called, it was one of the things that the the you know the entire table, it was simple but fun, it was just family, very very close family in a living room you know it wasn't a big wedding because may God rest his soul Bader, aaand umm-

And you moved out to live by-by yourself?

Mm, that's the sad part.

Here is when you said you be- began cooking and?

Here aa, I mean aa, I told you that my father may he rest in peace despite being you know he never discriminated between us even in his life for example his daughters so as to avoid any issues with the inheritance with his children and their children and he's old and has many offspring his daughter and children, so he made everyone comfortable, I recall while I was in secondary school not in high school but secondary school, aa he bought a house in Hawalli and gave it to me, wow you own a house in Hawalli? [laughs] So this made me content, you know? It was possible at the time that someone, the time I got married I mean I could have lived in a better place or one that I paid for you know? But my husband was the kind of man that he was self-made aand I mean despite his family I mean thanks be to God wealth is a gift from God but he wasn't, I mean we lived in an apartment building in Hawalli it was m- it was newly built, aa sh- aa Sabeecha Al-Duay and they ha- it was the first time aa that apartments had central air conditioning, so if it had central AC you'd take it no matter where it's located you're going to take it because it had central AC, a central AC apartment, so we lived in Hawalli aa the buildings are still still there.

Which buildings?

The ones you know Al-Negra souk? The north one or so? The buildings are still there they're pretty the entrance to them was made to look like a villa but it was always- beautiful beautiful sectioned in a very modern style, aand even though it was in 1970 but it was- it's still there and they had the that not aa the central AC, aa, two bedrooms a living room and a kitchen, my neighbor was, Lebanese married to an Iraqi, the Iraqi man was really in a good job, aand she's from a family aa his mother is of the Al-Khudhairy family and he was sh- he was well off, aa she was my neighbor, aand aa at the time I was still studying, but when I came back the food used to be sent to me from my mother and from my in-laws that's my mother-in-law she was very caring that's my husband's mother a very very kind person I'm telling you how I saw her and this is something I have to mention for history in all honesty may God rest her soul, like she treated me like a wife like her daughter I treat my children's my daughters deare- aa I mean the children of aa my children's wives I have to treat them like she used to, she was sweet, an angel, I probably felt sadder than her daughters when she passed away, a great person, she used to send me food, aand it was embarrassing, even the salad, I swear to God I can't forget it was embarrassing even the salad and my mother sends food and she does too and our house was filled with food which we don't know what to do with [coughs] then once I told them I don't want anyone to send me food I just decided then and there that it's wrong and I'm embarrassed, aa I was embarrassed that I'm an adult married woman and have a house and I have a helper, I don't need we I mean don't need all this food it was embarrassing drivers coming in and out, so we could eat? I don't know I felt something was wrong, so I told them please please aa I don't want anyone to send us food anymore I began to insist that I cook, I swear to God I still remember that I used to put the meat, aa in the that I learnt it from my neighbor I'm grateful to her, aa I'd cook the meat at night and put it in the fridge and what have I taken from this? I'd remove the fat because at the time all aa Ahmad was a bit overweight so I'd remove the fat and put the rice in so when I come back from school- aa from the-

University

The university, and it worked, and I came to love cooking.

Do you remember the first dish you cooked?

It was disasterous, aa Bader was- Ahmad was sick, and his nephew had come to visit, and I had just come back from the university I was in the kitchen aand you know to put the rice in, everything was ready, what's for lunch? So I said Mutabbaq he mut- I mean I don't know much about fish, but Mutabbaq was our lunch OK let's serve lunch sit down, I can't forget it, t- I mean it left a mark on me, serve lunch so I served lunch on the table aa everything was ready we put out the mutabbaq and I was brave for that, my first time cooking fish-

[Al-Ali laughs]

And it was my first ti- I don't know how to cook I mean how are you sitting there when his mother is one of the best co- cooks their house had the best food that is Yaqoub's house Ahmad's brother the best food, we sat down to eat, we served it to eat no one could eat it, so I started crying and crying, I cried like never before in front of him aa I mean right there on the table and then I left where are you going where? I was crying where are you I'm crying and crying, Ahmad was saying it's alright what's the matter there's nothing wrong, beans beans he was telling her to make beans quickly beans with bread, so this was the toughest moment of my life, it was embarrassing I don't know aand he was sick and wants to eat how can he eat? S- why have you cooked fish and why would you ask someone to join us when you obviously don't know how to cook so that's something I'd never forget, and he was telling me it's alright no don't worry Ahmad here what's the matter with beans beans let's have beans in a minute in a minute in a minute, I mean this incident, it gave me confidence because he didn't mock me or yell at me, he never said maybe you should've brought something- you know? He could've had a reaction since he was sick, but he held himself together and said it's fine it's fine it's not a problem, let's just make beans we'll make beans sit down Rasheed k k k k k we turned it into a joke and I came back with tears streaming tears upon tears I couldn't hold them back I still cry whenever I remember it, aa aa because I was hungry he asked me why are you crying and I said I was hungry [laughs] I can't forget it, I'm hungry, OK alright let's all have beans so this gave me a confidence boost that I- I mean that it's fine I could try again I don't know what, and still my cooking isn't really delicious, not- but I do cook, by which I mean on vacations I cook, when we go on vacation I cook machboos I cook everything, but not much I haven't gotten really into cooking, I don't mind cooking and standing in the kitchen-I enjoy it, I came to love cooking she started teaching me my neighbor teaching me how to cook, even though I never got as good as her, but at least I came to know how people cook, and I've never been in a kitchen, I can't be too confident as to cook fish and invite this man to come eat with us, anyways Ahmad still tells me that he remembers the fish like he caught it himself [laughs], anyways, that's how my life was at the beginning I was trying to aa the girl I had would prepare, she would make things ready and when we came back we'd eat just fine umm I mean it wasn't- it wasn't the aa the best and most delicious but you know aaa-

How was the management of both aa your life as a wife and a student was it?

No I was able to do it can you believe that, because first you don't have children, I didn't have children I wasn't aa I was new to life, I had no obligations and I was young so I didn't have to visit anyone nor any social obligations or such, unlike girls nowadays my God every single girl in the family goes to offer condolences at funerals how about you leave this to your mother to go offer condolences, stay my mother offer condolences my mother goes to visit my mother goes t- for us she didn't tell us all to go, now girls from the youngest to the oldest all have to go to funerals they have to- what are these phenomena? To go kiss someone whether you know them or not? What are these phenomena, first it's all microbes second it's exhausting second it's draining to the people you're consoling or when you receive people these birth receptions we never had them, these phenomena this falseness wasn't, we were- we were focus on our homes on our studies and on our children we didn't have this, this life outside home homes are now hotels.

So your life was-

My life was-

At the university and in the-?

Yes yes and that's it that's all and I study and that's it I go there-

And your husband was working?

Yes of course, he was working he was an employee, mm.

And you graduated from the university? How was the graduation?

I graduated with difficulty like I told you because I then moved to a house, aa we left our apartment and we were preparing our house which we're living in now, aa 74, aa I moved to the house and I became very busy I got pregnant, so, I couldn't continue at all at all at all I couldn't couldn't I mean before aa I attended all year long all year all months I couldn't continue I've had enough enough enough I couldn't exa- I couldn't take exams so I postponed my enrollment I was able to do that it was a relief you could go back the next year, so I got pregnant and I don't know I don't know aa and I finished and felt happy for my child and I don't know-

And you had your first aa your first child-?

Bader first, [laughs] Bader is the boy, after that n aa by the second opening the m- that semester I attended it then graduated after it so I feel happy when people ask me when have you graduated? I tell them 75 76 so I'm still young you know, I've been studying all my life [laughs].

You graduated after you came-

English literature.

The the-

Bader.

The Bader.

Yes yes, I liked I preferred that my life be comfortable, aa amm to keep my child safe because it's more- more important I mean I had a bit of a difficult pregnancy, and I was afraid to be honest so why would I keep doing this, I mean umm enough of that I can do this as I please I don't want what's it called, so I said I'll dro- even when I went to drop out they said you've got one month left I said no this one month is the most valuable month to me, the most valuable month to preserve my pregnancy and keep my child safe to nurture him and enjoy it and when the season is back I'd stop, I mean the the, aah next year I'll go back to school and continue and indeed I got back comfortable in knowing my child grew up at home and such.

You then graduated from Kuwait university what did you do afterwards?

That's it can you believe it? I just rid myself of [laughs] of this chaos from me studying studying studying, I mean if you were to count it they were 8 years, 2 years in Beirut 2 years in Cambridge and 4 years in that, I couldn't believe I had a house, and a child, my children aa I mean my child was, aa so I enjoyed the break a little.

How was motherhood as an experience for you or-

Amazing, umm I was very happy that I was in- why if I weren't happy I would've gone to work, since I went to study I would've gone back to work now that I have graduated, I have this and that, I preferred to raise my children, to enjoy that not because because I felt that I have spent a lot of time in this chaos, Beirut then- I mean I've benefitted enough, I have benefitted from whatever I benefitted from regardless of whether it was good or not, 2 years in aa Cambridge and 4 years in the university that's enough I want to rest to enjoy time with my children and indeed I had them one after the other-

Aa after aa Bader you had-

After 4 years I had Dalal, and immediately after Dalal I had Saleh, so they became 3 and thanks are due to God I mean aa aa I was content and happy and I raised them and enjoyed my time with them, and I was very close to them and was very very aa I mean with them, I never left their side ever ever ever, and like I told you our life unlike nowadays did not involve going to the most distant person to congratulate her on the delivery of her daughter-in-law for instance, not even her daughter but her daughter-in-law, or a funeral just because we have to go this was not the norm-

Aa since you mentioned this part how were the celebrations of the delivery or in these I mean on such occasions? Un- at the time you gave birth what did you d-?

I mean when I gave birth I was like all the others a daughter would go back to her mother's, stay at her father's house I mean aa because she's young and had just given birth so they'd help her, aa it was the same for me at this stage we weren't aa we didn't have receptions, there were no receptions or private hospitals, all deliveries were done in the the what's it called-

Al-Sabah?

The maternity hospital yes, Al-Sabah, aand it was open, simple, people would come in and out, you're tired because you're the one who gave birth but people are comfortable they didn't care about these appearances it's true that everything was clean as usual everything was nice as usual if you were neat it was neat if you weren't neat then it wasn't neat, you don't exert yourself and tire yourself for the sake of your visitors, aa the guests' service is there you serve them that's normal when you're home someone brings chocolate biscuits whatever if you don't serve them then you don't serve them, our life was fine like this, if I was at home or someone visited me at the hospital my reception was the same, nothing extra, people what's going on, you go to your mother's house stay there served honored and assisted, does it mean we're done? Just go back to the and- I mean I myself when I gave birth to my son Bader, my mother's health was a bit suffering so my older sister Fatima, her husband is Ahmad Al-Khatib, she said with me, you'll come stay with me, aa so I stayed with her and I did not even finish the postpartum period there just because it was a difficult pregnancy for me, aa I stayed with her aa in the morning a visitor would come ringing the bell and would just come in afternoons and noons they would come in or in whichever they'd come in it was normal these ordinary visits, there was nothing of the kind where you're like a queen on your bed with people worshipping you, like you're really it's embarrassing embarrassing embarrassing you know, not it was your ordinary life a visitor would come in and you're not- not prepared mm not mak- an ordinary good life true you get annoyed by visitors but even at home at ordinary times you would be annoyed if someone did not call first to tell you they're coming and you're not properly dressed not prepared and haven't lit any incense or put any- yes you would be annoyed but the visits were continuous not- there was no time scheduled time for them, it was tiring, not practical, aa but it worked.

Aaand how was you mentioned Al-Sabah hospital how was it-

Ordinary.

The hospital compared to current day?

Fine, the government cared, no corruption, no chaos, no aaa leniency with whoever does something wrong, the caliber of aa doctors were good, the hospital was good and clean and everything, now it's neglected, one now is afraid of the butcher's shop it's like going to a butcher's shop when going to such hospitals, so that the owners of the the the owners of private hospitals can grow their the the what's it called, I know people who give birth aa at the maternity hospital then goes to take a- there's a room in a hospital that is rented out for receptions, she would have already delivered the baby but only goes there for the reception lying in bed, I mean aa, my second pregnancy with my daughter I went straight home, because things have changed you now have a house of your own and have people to help you it means you don't need to go to your parents' house, back then they went to their parents houses because at their houses they didn't have people to help them co- cook for them or cares for them aa you leave and you have people who help you you have a cook who cooks there for you you have aa helpers at the house I mean, my second daughter at the house aa Saleh the last one I was on vacation, and the check-in was, check I mean the regular one the check-in, the check-up was the regular one to go to the doctor since I had a month left, so he told me no you're ready to deliver I said no that's not possible I have no pain, he said no you have to deliver, so I gave birth there by myself-

Not in Kuwait?

My family went crazy, no he did not allow me to take a plane I was supposed to go to London to give birth at my mother's mother's have a big house and whatnot in what's it called, in London, she was waiting for me there to give birth and stay there for the summer I stay with them then that's it, London was an hour away he said not a minute more you can't go home you have to go to the hospital immediately, how he made a mistake apparently I don't know how he made his calculations, he said thank God I was there for a regular check-up but I mean the regu- the routine one, no go immediately to the hospital, uff, the hospital in 20 minutes Ahmad went to the hospital quickly, aa he ti- she told him OK go home bring me clothes or such he told me no no no no there are no clothes go then you go bring her clothes, I went in immediately, aand after a little while I gave birth I mean I went through the delivery stages and so but it wasn't very difficult, easy like he is.

[Al-Ali laughs]

I always tell him you're as easy as your delivery, aa mmm I mean the doctor had not arrived he said I'm right behind you he had not arrived, I gave birth, then aa they took me to my room and Ahmad came with the bag so how is it? I told him I gabe birth so he said what?! Come on you're lying.

[Al-Ali laughs]

Indeed I gave birth, aa where is he? ha? he went crazy, how? You gave birth without me here I told him what can I do even the doctor wasn't here, anyways Saleh's delivery was done aa I felt the the I mean like European women in their deliveries, they don't overreact to it, the one we're used to, you have to lay in for 40 days or I don't know how long, and you have to be laying and you can't drin- I mean you do nothing, you can't be exposed to cold air drafts and no no no no no, European women in a day or two then leave, within a week they go back to work, I went home with no one, I went to the apartment I mean our house the apartment, and aa now how are we going to manage with the baby and such and we have to go back too, thankfully I have somoene with me, [coughs] those were our helpers we would have them travel with us as families but they didn't run away, in recent years they run away, so they did not r- they weren't runaways, the days when they did not run away from you, so thank God they were with me, aaah mm I stayed a few days in the apartment and such then we went to Paris because there were no flights I mean direct ones so we stayed in Paris we stayed in Paris with the baby and my two young children, aa I wen- went out after 10 days or 15 something like that fif- in the Champs-Élysées, I met one of my friends, Awatif Al-Sabah, Louloua! What happened? I told her, oh how? In the Champs- and there was a cold draft, aa I told her I'm fine I'm doing well there's nothing wrong with me [laughs], and mmm I mean and I went back home and my friends and family visited me and I received them as usual not laying in bed or such what nonsense! That's it these are my pregnancies 3 different pregnancies [laughs].

Aand then you came back-

But it has traditions you know traditions.

And you came back to Kuwait after that?

Yes I came back that's it yes yes.

The vacation has ended and you came back to Kuwait.

Yes.

And you dedicated yourself to motherhood for how many years?

Well aro- aa till I mean mmm I was you know, I did not work anyways I did not work, I mean mm in this period we had our private estate work the estate our father left us which is a real estate office, things of that sort it needs, my sister Sherifa is the one who managed the office she's the one who had the what's it called, and I don't think I told you that Sherifa when my father was alive, she's the middle one, he used to treat her as his secretary.

Mm.

There was no personal secretary at home but her, she's the one who writes the one that files the one that locks the safe she's the one she's the one that does everything everything there are there are documents in her handwriting because she had good penmanship and this is something I used to say that we learnt calligraphy at school, it wasn't for nothing today you can't read their writings in fact they may not even write, God saved them with aa aa typing otherwise no one would be writing now, but still, so he treated her like a secretary she knew everything by heart so she became this strong because she's the one he depends on she's the one who had the office she's the one we did all the paperwork to be the manager of our estate, indeed she did managed aa managed the office and all the estate our father left her or us and ours she managed it, aa and I was on the side I couldn't do it like her because she was the big boss and the strong one and she would do everything herself and she had employees and, but to an extent you had something you were preserving I mean this was on my mind, but I did not try to work at a job, and that desire to teach English had gone, aa I don't know my children took it as I started teaching them English [laughs] English and I'd teach them religion and Arabic, and Saleh h- aa I remember he would put his head down and legs up to memo- to memorize, I told him it's pointl- he said I can't memorize things with my head up and legs so [laughs] my head down and legs up and he'd recite the Quranic verse to me, or recite a poem or rec- I mean my life with them was enjoyable, thank God, aa that's it, we came to the period the day of the invasion, aand-

Aa q-

At the time of the invasion I had a lot work too and after the invasion I had a lot of work-

Before we we aa come to the invasion aa this is probably a good place aa to stop to start the next session?

I think so because it's a new phase yes.

Aa in the invasion, OK?

I think so, a new phase because this had ended here, my children are already grown up aand until high school until until I mean there was nothing.

Inshallah

OK-

But I did not send her a message it's not a problem.

OK today's date is the sixteenth of December 2019 and the time is almost 11, aa AM and we're in Al-Khaldiyyah in Kuwait umm Mrs. Louloua Al-Mulla aa thank you for agreeing to this interview again, aa in the previous interview we stopped in the 1980s period approximately, aa so I'd like to start with let's say aa a general question umm, then we can ge- get into the details aa how did Kuwait change for you from the seventies let's say to the eighties? I mean socially for example politically the general atmosphere in Kuwait.

Well in the seventies aa one was busy with what you could say studying and raising children, aa so- one's life start personally the start of my life was in seventy four seventy five aa when I got married and I was beginning aa I mean starting a family and after having children, so I was you know aa a little the the the focused not on anything else but I probably was focused with my husband who was aa busy with these issues, I mean he was r- aa I mean aa at the beginning he was an employee but then became the chief editor of Al-Talea newspaper the one, aa of the opposition so aa this newspaper to be truthful so every piece of news in it is a hundred percent with no doubts and no one could come ques- questioning it I mean if Al-Talea said it that means it's definite, so this truthfulness would require him an entire week of suffering, with the aa aa I mean his nervous state he was in at work and aa it was continuous so to me I was obligated to be to be just at home so I won't add to this I mean for both of us to be busy with such matters it would ruin our home, so indeed I was trying to be very calm, aa dedicated to my home, absolutely despite what I probably said or did not say, when I came back and got married h- s- seventy seventy one I came back to Kuwait I started studying aa I enrolled in Kuwait university, you know? So I had my studies and at home I was taking care of my home and that's it, aa I hear the problems I know the problems through Al-Talea and the problems at Al-Talea and when he would sit down to write and when he's angry or when he's on the phone, all these problems but they were different problems, problems that aimed to build a good clean and developed society, aa reformed, from the workers' rights at the time, to the lands and land acquisition all political issues I used to hear in discussions and, a lot of subjects that build Kuwait building the society of Kuwait in fact at the time women's rights, because let's not forget may God grant him a long life Salem Al-Marzouq was the first to demand the political rights in seventy one, Jasem Al-Qatami was alive at the time and at the height of his activism we heard he was a women's rights defender and others I don't want to mention names and forget others, it's written in history but these are the people you hear about and see they must have left an impact on your life these figures build a society, build a good future, these were all issues I used to hear but I wasn't, I did not partake in any of it, and it probably left an impact on my life with my husband and his involvement in these issues and I see him writing and re- reading and asking the person of interest he'd question him for an hour to make sure the piece of news is true or not true so that it comes out in the newspaper the next day s- when the newspaper is printed on Saturday, we'd say we will be happy and resting on Sunday but with Monday the agony starts again, so his life was even when he- he became ill I mean and had a heart disease he told him he had to leave this life behind that anxiety, so little by little until he got better but what's the point after losing his youth to this, but that's alright for our country we shall sacrifice everything, aa aand indeed what they have done is written in history and has left a mark that can still be seen today, this was the atmosphere of course Ahmad's involvement in the in the elections, it made me aa too try to offer him a a good atmosphere or help him in his campaign headquarters with organization and preparations and cooking and serving and and such, I had a different responsibility, and I opened the basement and placed speakers there and told my friends to come and listen to the the his campaign tent was aa near our house, it was a piece of land that has not been built yet not exactly next to us but the third one so we had a tent and we would listen while sitting in the basement and people would come and go not necessarily my friends, so it was the headquarters listening to what is being said in the aa what is being said in the campaign headquarters, this is what I lived through in the seventies and eighties-

Tell me more about this specifically, aa I mean for instance what were the subjects discussed when when people came aand who used to come?

See aaa I remember they even talked about women's rights to be honest, and you know the first group it's a gg group so- its name is I mean maybe I hope I'm not mistaken it was called Parliament Members of the People I'm sure of that but I don't know if it was a group or an electoral list or an electoral list or whatever they're a group a grou- aa aaa yes the Parliament members of the People that's their name, aa q- it included Ahmad Al-Khatib Abdullah Al-Naibary Sami Al-Menayyes Ahmad Al-Nafisi, these were the first parliament members to adopt as a group the rights of women, in history ha, aa and we used to listen and we were enthused as I said at the beginning-

There were women and men?

No what are you talking about.

But aa-

No no we're coming to that [laughs] for men and women, it was only men of course, I told you my responsibility was to prepare a suitable clean environment with service and what not the backstage for the rally to be a success with food and with, even though the parliament members of the people did not have service like back then, in the seventies there were no buffets, they did not spend as much, the exaggerations in food service was not a thing because the me- they thought that if someone wants to come and listen would not want to talk, so this was their policy, we had an Egyptian cook who made falafel and would roll them as we didn't have catering by the way in the seventies catering, and there were no hotels and no- Or we did have hotels but it's impossible to have one come and cater and serve you, never this was very tough to the- the people who run for elections because it's really exhausting, exhausting exhausting exhausting I remember buying 300 pla-, 300 aa forks and knives and such, and 300 glasses and I I bought them of course from cheap souks but I mean they were for there was no catering and I still have q- aa what remained of them as a souvenir, aa pots that were really big and burners that were outside aa he'd be cooking in the garden so he used to fry falafel to make sandwiches may Allah bless his memory Mohammad Mousaed may Allah- I mean unfortunately these amazing figues have left us, aa he wrote once in his column that the one who served a buffet did not win but the one who served falafel won, so that was imprinted on- imprinted this thing- and we're still at the society, aa aa I mean we n- aa I don't know why it's strange, we don't ca- everybody used to say you need a budget to aa have catering and we used to not have catering, and we did not bring food either and food was not important and neither t- nor any plaques and the waste of money on plaques what's that, this item of expenditure was removed by us, we had work to do and the people who want to work would not wait for aa a metal utensil that we give him or a plastic one, so this at least is one of the since I joined the society in ninety two to this day this item is nonexistent and some people were upset with us that we did not honor them we don't don't honor people, we're an ordinary people's party the same as you, so why would I honor someone like me or better than me why? Who am I to honor them, the state honors or an establishment's ro- what matters, this issue had such a mentality that you can't serve this food because people are coming to you to eat a buffet? No, so this was an issue that I mean I still aa remember a lot to this day.

And what of the subjects discussed was important to you for example?

The subjects we'll get back to the subjects but I just wanted to lead the conversation to something very important, because the excessiveness in the electoral campaigns and the food and such, this is something that is-

Very excessive.

Not mmm I mean, too much money [laughs] let's say too much money, there was money but it wasn't spent like so, it was not spent on food for no good reason, anyways aa the the subjects I t- to be honest, I remmeber they were the first to present, aa the draft of a law or with women I mean the umm, in their election program to defend women's rights and the implementation of the article 29 of the constitution, umm, we used to listen to problems like aa aa the trade indeed the trade union you know I think they had a hand in the establishment of the aa union, it's not a union, not a union- a union? No it's not a union, it has a name-

A movement?

No no, Oh umm anyways, then I- I don't know.

This was in the seventies?

It's not a union aa no, anyways yes yes yes-

This was in the seventies?

Yes and definitely before that too but that's what I heard during those election times.

And you said in the s-

Workers rights, women's rights, aa housing rights for citizens, there are projects being discussed Ahmad tells me that we used to discuss since the seventies, the development plan Abdullah Al-Naibary had said it himself that we had a plan from 2000 [laughs] 1975 or I don't know he said 76, and now they're repeating the same discussions, I swear, so you know aa umm.

You as a wife of Mr. Ahmad aa have you aa heard of like criticism or mm, anything of that sort? Or you weren't?

No probably but they couldn't have said it to my face [laughs] I don't know but I wasn't, there was nothing I mean the aa to be criticized about me on the contrary you know, aa first it was the if it was about the newspaper as a chief editor he was very well respected, people had a lot of respect for him because he was a man capable of aa he wasn't like so why would it matter what beliefs he held aa Al-Talea was all free, no one worked for a salary, aa of course other than the managing employees but I mean may God rest his soul Sami not the doctor or Abdullah or Ahmad none of them earned any money and there were no benefits, on the contrary they had aa aa the courts would make them lose money out of their own pockets, the lawsuits against the newspaper made them you know lose money aand in in- and even the establishment of the the that that's important for everybody to know that even the establishment of the newspaper as a newspaper was established by patriots of the people of Kuwait, everybody put money in it, and they made a very simple newspaper, with a very simple building, no one can say that's mine, it's owned by the people who contributed to it, that's it, and if there were any improvements to the buildings or the printing press and what not it was from the you know, their own money and I remember, people who worked in Al-Talea to build buildings to rent out to a press or it was a printing press and they rented it I don't know something like that, aa to make some money for Al-Talea, of the buildings, ha, and this person and I remember him Abdullah Al-Suba'ei may he rest in peace, aa he was a volunteer he had no aa any ambition, aa they were honest young men who contributed and they wrote for Al-Talea and worked there no one has a claim to Al-Talea but patriotic people, the ones who contributed their own money to establish this newspaper.

Aa you said this was in the seventies.

Hmm.

And in the eighties-

But the newspaper was before the seventies I me- yes around the turn of aa- the turn of the eighties?

With the eighties how did the situation change from the seventies to the eighties?

Aa the political issues began to get complicated you're saying?

Politically or socially.

I told you from the seventies to the eighties I was busy with my home and children until eighty.

Aa aa describe motherhood as an experience aa this subject is important I'd like to focus on it a bit before we move to the end of the eighties.

Aa yes like I told you exactly this period from aa on- from aa I mean from the time I got married in seventy seventy one...

Aa I began to live this life I wanted to have a house of my own and and be into cooking we probably mentioned the cooking? Yes aa so we mentioned this phase, and indeed I was into it and and I wanted to become a housewife, I don't know why it's strange I mean e even though I never dreamed of getting married and have a house of my own never it wasn't on the aa, but when I did get married I felt like oh my God that's my house, even though it was very difficult for me the first day we moved to the house I was crying because I wasn't used to it I wanted to go back home you know, I mean I was the youngest and I was the pampered one and now I'm in a house where if I wake up in the morning I have to be responsible for it? It was a strange feeling but I was happy, because he too is a man who deserves this you know? so aa aa I cared for the house I didn't have, I wasn't aa social much, I didn't have aa these my meetings or social obligations were for close family and and that's it I didn't over do it, ummm then this aa at the time I was studying, so I didn't have time, I didn't know anything about the world but my home and family and that's it, when we moved in seventy four to our house which we built of course we were renting, aa seventy four seventy five aa I was aa I got pregnant with my first child, mm the eldest Bader aand that's I even dropped out of the university because how much I wanted to be, aa you know-

Dedicated to-

Dedicated but you know how? I dropped out a month before the aa ex- the aa the aa

Graduation?

No no a month before the exam, everybody said it's a pity and such I said no my health is more important this is something I can do later what does it mean no no I have a lot of aa it wasn't a priority.

And you moved to a new house where was the house?

In Al-Dhahiya.

In Al-Dhahiya.

And it's still the same house.

Aa but in the seventies how was the area in the seventies?

It was a new area, it hadn't been built yet that's why at the time aa Ahmad during the elections was in the tent next to the house, not the one direct next to us but the third one, so the houses weren't built yet- only a few were built, and it was a new area, aand that's it this is the house we settled in and we're still here and will remain here, and I'm comfortable in it and I like it and everything but it took a lot of time I mean I forgot about the world and my obligations aand you know I decided to be a mother to take care of my health, and I had my son aa Bader and it was a good experience and I came back to raise him and I was happy, aaand that's it, so from 75 to 80 and such, at this time I was just raising Bader I had no one else but him, aa because I remained unoccupied for 4 years after having him [laughs], there's no one but Bader, umm I used to aa meet with aa the girls from the university from Al-Wasat group who came after me my classmates and such, Al-Wasat girls were energetic and high-spirited.

Like who were they?

You want me to tell you their names?

Yes, yes.

To be honest I don't I'm afraid I'm going to remember some and forget others you know.

[Al-Ali laughs]

Haniyah Al-Ariqi Areej Al-Khatib, that's of course my niece Areej Al-Khatib, aa with them aa, Suad Al-Munayyes, aa oh my God... one with them called Barwanah she's their friend but she was also with us Barwanah, um, I'm trying to remember, aa, these were the students, we joined them myself and Feryal Al-Feraih and Shaikha Al-Farhan, aa-

This was after your graduation?

Yes, no at the time I had dropped out until then afterwards I became aa a year after I graduated, I graduated aa after-

And what were your meetings aa what issues did you or-?

Issues we were aa aa we were trying to I found the paper now while organizing, we wrote to aa to the graduates society that wanted to start a children's club, I swear to God and I have the paper, it's strange how I found the paper, and and it was handwritten by me, that we're a group of so-and-so and that we want to start a children's club because it's something that I relate to in my life after aa where do I take Bader? You know there weren't any aa parks see things come up as we talk, there were no parks no entertainment for children there were no mmm you know fun activities, no entertainment centers nothing, I as- except for the park with a bicycle or I push him or playing football with aa whoever visits or he visits someone, so we thought of the children, the children had nothing really, and the same was true for the other with me be it Shaikha or Feryal or Suad their children were little too, so we thought aaand we wanted what's it called, start a club I don't know what happened to it I don't know I mean umm the graduates society did not reject it, at the time the president was I- I think it was Abdullah Al-Taweel, may Allah bless his memory, if we were serious about it when we proposed it there would be a club now, aa and we had a good project, because they had a big yard, really aa what's it called, aa anyways s- the eighty nine events, seventy nine eighty nine-

Eighty nine?

Eighty nine, eighty eight, aa eighty seven eighty ni- aa eighty eight eighty nine, there was aaa you could say aa, a kind of political chaos in the national assembly had started, aand they stopped you know and clo- closed the assembly, there was nothing, so parliament members began to move, all the blocs, Salafis to demo- mmm the democratic platform to all all whoever they are, they would meet, all of them, all of them would come none would miss a meeting all the me- members of the national assembly, demanding, the return of democracy the assembly cannot be suspended, it can't, mm I mean I mean it's not possible for a democratic state with a suspended assembly and that's it, so they had moved but I can't discuss its details because-

This was during the M- aa Monday Diwaniyyas?

Mondi- Monday Diwaniyyas started yes in eighty eight eighty nine, oh! Yes... eighty nine that's right- aa, eighty nine, eighty nine and eighty eight, here maybe it was aa I don't know the details to be honest, but they started to assemble and we knew that it can't be we began to be aware I mean where we are we've developed now it's not just a club now [laughs], not a children's club not a women's movement, and prior to that I remember we used to meet but there was another meeting where we go to Najat Al-Sultan may she rest in peace, in her house she was N Najat Al-Sultan you know aa I mean she had come from India, you see how cultures influence societies, she was very enlightened and ambitious may she rest in peace she left us at a young age unfortunately, a group of us not like the this group just a part of it I'll give you the names I have them in a paper, aa we used to meet, read books, educate ourselves politically with Najat Al-Sultan and that's different they were actually practicing this like so with girls and young women and they wanted to start a club and what not m, and there they weren't educating themselves it was a form of political education discussing books and such at her house ha-

Like a cultural club you mean?

Aa a diwaniyya let's say not a club we were a few by the way-

M-

Because- huh?

And what books were you reading for instance?

Well.

Or were there any political issues you said?

Aa b- ordinary books but you could say we made a group to discuss even the political issues but it wasn't necessarily political, we were aiming to say, as we wanted entertainment and clubs for our children there we also said we wanted a- cultural spaces, the society was ready but the society had a different approach like you could say aa like when children look up to adults, so indeed this was the approach, aa so we said let's just join the society considering this is our ambition and indeed-

The society?

Women's Cultural and Social society, and indeed we were meeting in houses each time a house, aa and this made, Louloua Al-Qetami we'll talk about her later Louloua Al-Qetami came to us how did she tell the girls to join the society, aa because they were moving, so aa, aa what's it called aa we began with what I told you aa Monday Diwaniyyas when they were meeting this was our group not the group aa because Najat Al-Sultan had already passed away, during that time, I think eighty sev- probably too early t- eighty seven maybe mm I mean anyways she died before the invasion, aa so we said, why are the men only demanding democracy? Where are we? Why aren't we? Why aren't we helping them? So we agreed this small group, the Al-Wasat graduates we're the ones that came out we were three mothers the ones I told you about, so we agreed to help them by standing outside but how do we stand outside? You know the girls now were wearing jeans and t-shirts so I was worried someone might insult them, I was worried someone might say inappropriate things to them that would deform, and this was possible, so I said why don't we wear Abayyah- to indicate that we we we we we're in mourning as we wear Abayya when in mourning and this is a mourning, so it was two birds with one stone no one could talk about us coming and standing in front of men this was a look that we used to feel, how about we wear Abayyah see when I talk about this I get goosebumps, aa we wear Abayyah and go stand next to the diwaniyyah where they're meeting, and I remember we were by Mishari Al-Anjiry in Al-Nezha, and an officer came out I know him I know him very well, I asked him what's the matter? I was- acting funny, what's going on? So he said they have a bride but the bride died... aa and this, this I mean aa it was shocking for me I mean you're a big officer in National Security and, and someone tells you this- tells you that so I gave him or I don't know really I came to came to see anyways, I was really upset, ha- we were standing doing nothing just standing, we went to Jassim Al-Qetami, so it began to grow with us, the the aa our circle began to grow bigger they began to know that there are women who were going to stand by the right of aa Monday Diwaniyyas, it began to grow bigger by Jassim Al-Qetami's, with me was Modhi aa Al aa Humoud and the Al-Sharfan girls Hend Al-Sharfan and Anisa Al-Sharfan, and I don't forget like it's now we were standing on the pavement, between us and the Diwaniyya was a street but we were gathering there [laughs] and I was just- we were just standing, talking to no one, and no one was talking to us but they felt that there was someone and there was support lifting their morale, and this is something that isn't mentioned because they don't want to mention it, aa but I said it in Monday Talks in there, in Jaber Center, aa afterwards aa it was aa in Fatima Mosque, they said let's pray after we were dispersed. It was- there was a time in Al-Adailiyya but I don't want to say the wrong parliament member's name, I don't know if it's Al-Fadhala in Al-Adailiyyah I don't know I don't want to, in a diwaniyyah and they entered and dispersed them and and they came out of the diwaniyyah and so, I mean no it gatherings were disallowed it came out not- illegal gatherings the law aa of gatherings came out at that time it was at the time of Saad Al-Abdullah may he rest in peace, aa it was illegal so the one after that they said let's go pray in a mosque, so they went to pray in Fatima mosque, and we went and prayed outside the mosque all of us, all of the group and there's a picture and pictures I've put, I've even put them in what's it called, I mean aa in the society's booklet and so, aaa even my daughter was probably thirteen at the time Dalal was with me without a hijab with nothing just standing there amazed with what we're doing praying what s- I mean how could she she's not wearing a thing how could she pray Mom you've put me in a difficult situation I told her I forgot we didn't know what we were doing to begin with, aa so we prayed with them and they came out, they did nothing to them, the following Monday was in aa Al-Farwaniyyah, at Abbas Al-Munawer's, we didn't make the meeting because we got lost because we took a bus all thirty of us we were thirty women, we rented a bus, aand aa what's it called it was written on the side of the bus Rent From Al-Mulla, such a scandal, and we went there but it wasn't a driver driving but one of the guys, he said I'm not leaving you I'm worried about you, anyways we gathered and went, they said they already left the diwaniyyah where are they going how are they going and where will they be? He said there they're coming to the mosque so we went to the mosque and got out of the bus, and we m- we met with them in the street so we went with them walking in front of them, one said I heard they throw teargas at them like they did in Al-Adailiyyah, he said no but there are women in front of them, this he heard himself, but there are women in front of them, anyways they went in the mosque and we stood outside and went to the bus but what matters is we did what we were supposed to do, aa this was the last attempt [claps her hands] then the invasion happened, the invasion happened and what's done is done, of course after the invasion when we came back we were more active, that can't happen, a woman becomes a POW gets tortured and coerced and joins the resistance it's an amazing womanly stand the first demonstration during the invasion were women, so all of us who went out and sacrificed themselves and resisted should all their aa sacrifices go to waste just like that? No even the ones who aren't with you will aa submit to you, it's not up to them, so to be honest we had a very early early early start, after the invasion dur- I mean immediately after it we went back to meeting in basements, we'd gather in I recall in Abdullah Al-Naibary's basement, we brought a man to talk to us about the borders, borders demarcation I can't remember who it was now, border demarcation just so he could enlighten us, you know? So everyone was eager to be part of aaand I mean to contribute to this this when our country is in a crisis let us all aa rush to help her.

Umm I want to pause here a little you mentioned the invasion umm, when you first heard of the invasion can you tell me where you were and how you felt?

Umm the invasion we, myself and my children and my sister was with us, aand of course Ahmad aa in we had a house or let's say an apartment not a house there were no houses but in- an apartment that we bought a long time ago in Southern France, in a beautiful area and we still love it and visit it every year, when the invasion happened we couldn't believe it, it was a shock to us Ahmad was in Kuwait at the time, of course at the time they weren't traveling for 3 months they were young and had work and jobs and he hasn't retired yet, so he was back in Kuwait and the day he was planning to come back his passport and things were on as he says they were on the bed he didn't take them I cannot forget he couldn't couldn't get back home because it was surrounded remember when they were saying that a new cabinet has been formed with Ahmad Al-Na- Al-Nafisi Ahmad Al-Khatib to aa? Ahmad Al-Nafisi was really at our neighbor's house hiding in the basement because the cook told him not to come because the house was surrounded, and they were of course were wanted, he went to Al-Talea and found nobody at Al-Talea, Al-Talea building how did they know everything, they came to the house and surrounded it so he called him and told him not to come now Ahmad's passport is on the bed, anyways he was hiding in our neighbor Abdul-Hamid Al-Beaijan's house in the basement, he said it was coming from the bui- a phone call because Abdul-Hamid Al-Beaijan from the Foreign Affairs ministry had told him is it true it has been formed? So he said that's what we heard, he said there Ahmad Al-Kha- his house is surrounded and he's with me hiding, so how's that possible even when he left he took a Dishdasha from his cousin, he didn't have one he couldn't go in the house, so aa I mean it was like he escaped, he left against his will because he couldn't enter the house, aa at the time his father and mother were old and he had a niece that was due to give birth anyways, so he did what you know- there weren't what's it called a paved highway it was a desert road anyways, they were, more than what's it called, Ahmad called Feryal Abdullah Al-Neybari's wife and told her your mother and children are in Saudi Arabia you're coming with us whether you like it or not I'm taking you now, my house is surrounded tomorrow they're going to drag you out of the house, so he took her with him in the car, and they went to take the cook with them, and he left the house with one person there I mean our house was demolished a little we were renovating and such, aa there was one person aa he told him I'm staying I feel this house is mine I mean it's just not right, I mean we looked for him after the invasion we were dying to find him we want to know who he is to reward him, we couldn't find him anywhere I don't know where he disappeared, anyways he closed the house with what's it called wood and what he's done is amazing, because when they- when they come they see a demolished house so they don't enter, and Ahmad got out to Saudi Arabia wearing his cousin's dishdasha, and and in Saudi there m- I mean his situation was very very very difficult very much he never Ahmad I mean he never- I mean, he told the aa cook if you go there enter the room you'll find f- aa my passport on the even his ticket my passport and my ticket aa bring them with you, aand he go- got out because he's an old man too and an Egyptian poor thing he has children in Egypt and such, and apparently he was planning that we too have to come back anyways his affairs were arranged one way or the other I don't know who paid for him, aa he came to us, he didn't have his ticket with him it was not valid but I don't know I mean they arranged it for him, and he came aa immediately he said no we have to go come on come on we'll pack up and leave where to? My sister has a house in London we'll go to London to stay with her, n umm he tried to enroll my son in because he's now in high school so it's not right, so he tried to enroll him and this is something I can't forget it was in Choueifat aa I don't know a school like that in in in London in Britain, and there were groups and such so that was his question that so he could enroll him, and we stayed with- my sister's house we didn't have a house in London, he did, aa, anyways umm all night long he didn't not sleep because tomorrow he's going to Choueifat, he didn't sleep, all night long he was what was the problem so he said that's it he's not going to Choueifat, he has to feel this he's in high school he must know must know, feel that his country is occupied, he must know and feel this feeling of every person in Kuwait, and and I don't want him to go be isolated in Choueifat not knowing what's going on in the world, this I am against I don't know what's it called but that's it that's it, OK it's not a problem he's in the same situation as all the other people he's in the same situation as all these people I want him to have this feeling I don't want him to graduate but have no sense of patriotism? I don't want that, we're back in London but of course life was miserable for certain, no matter-

How?

Hmm?

How?

No no it was a house I mean I don't know what to say, my sister's and all but I mean they didn't let- you couldn't withdraw money from the bank, there was nothing how could you live how? So we said he said he Ahmad he refused to be idle- I mean the people we know who spend summers in France they all stayed there, all of them all of them [laughs] half of them became ministers, Ha? They stayed during the invasion I mean not, nothing happened to them I mean but he felt differently, I don't want to be idle, no I want to be the nearest to Kuwait, the nearest place to Kuwait, where's that? Our house is here! And the people around us and our neighbors are all Kuwaitis, never, I want to go back to Egypt, I don't know Egypt I don't like Egypt, anyways my sister has an apartment in Al-Zamalek, we stayed with her in her apartment, all the way since we rode the plane till we reached Egypt my eyes were tearing, frustrated for myself frustrated for my children and frustrated that I'm going to Egypt frustrated I don't know frustrated with everything everything everything everything, I mean this is something I don't forget, we arrived in Egypt my children were young and I started to adapt thank God my sister Sherifa's apartment I mean, thank God it had everything, and it was big and spacious and in a nice area but that wasn't enough, it wasn't enough, aa I remember the moment I broke down aa the bell rang and it was the cook that Ahmad got out of Kuwait and back to his children, he came with a chicken, and greens, and he said I'll cook this for you, mm, aa his daughter made a vow that once she sees uncle Ahmad she's going to kiss his feet for bringing my father back, he brought my father got him out and hadn't left him, he took him to Saudi Arabia and walked with him until aa he managed to get him a ticket to Egypt, aa I of course under these conditions you know what could you do, anyways this cook he started cooking and doing it all, he was helping a bit can you imagine ha, aa I mean thank God our lives got a little better [laughs] than others, mm but this feeling made me aa- more committed to the aa popular Kuwaiti committee in, in what's it called Cairo, because there were thirty thousand Kuwaitis at the time, and some of them were given rooms in Dokki aa Zamalek I don't know Dokki had a hotel I forgot its name a hotel for Kuwait owned by Kuwait so they put who they knew there and in the hotels free of charge aand th- I mean Thank God, aah I mean I joined the women's committee during the invasion, aa the ivasion in the the aa the popular committee for Ku- The Kuwaiti popular activism committee, I was in the there were cultural social aa and women's committee so I chose the women's committee, and we made aam I made I mean I always ma- I say we made but I have to say that I made something too you know, we said we needed a club club for children so you see the club moved from Kuwait it was strange ha, so I said a children's club so they won't forget Kuwait, and to not forget their country that it remains in- remains forever and they'd gather and become a bloc and become, the activities were drawing about Kuwait the Kuwait anthem we show them pictures of Kuwait and videos of Kuwait and such you know, they'd gather the second Friday, that was a day, and it was successful successful successful and the pictures I still y- I have them, they're with me, and it's heartbreaking, because when I recently I mean just a few years ago went to Ku- I went to Egypt we usually don't go to Egypt, so I went to the cabinet to aa to bring these memories I have, the bag was this big from the children, aa of course our events at the the Kuwait committee for popular activism were a lot, one of which is the nights what's it called the one that Ruwaished sang, and you know aa events at the pyramids there were a lot a lot of cultural events we organized something at the opera house you know.

Who was with you sh- of Kuwaiti there?

Aaa there were a lot, the ones with us I mean of course the ones who founded it, Mohammad Al-Gharabally may he rest in peace, Abdulaziz Al-Mekhled, Ahmad Al-Nafisi, aaa Khaled Al-Tarrah and Yousef Al-Jassim, and of course there were others but these are the ones that were closest to me and I remember them, aa and us women myself Rawyah Al-Ghanim, aa Shaikha Alll Al-Methen who's dep- dean of t aa the college of aa, the nursing institute... mm, Rawyah and Shaikha, of course there were others but I forgot them.

And what we-

Because I just remember the ones I worked with the most till the end I mean.

What were the other events?

The other events we at the women's committee was the club, I remember my son Saleh, he read f- aaa the opening speech, he was little, re- read the opening speech, it was a successful club every Thu- every Friday we'd gather in Al-Duqqi they gave us that hall downstairs, we'd attend every mmm every Friday was a new different event by them, aah ummm then the committee suggested aaa Shaikha Al-Methen she said ummm, my classmates in aaa The college of Medicine in Cairo they know people and were wondering why don't we establish nursing? A nursing institute not first aid ha, of course first aid was organized for other groups and such but it didn't mean, aah so I- a nursing institute? So she said yes I brought it up with Rasha Al-Sabah, Rasha Al-Sabah was, with Abdul-Rahman Al-Awadhi were staying at the Sheraton hotel the Sheraton... I brought it up until I gave up, they ignored me, so we promised her myself and Rawya Al-Ghanim, Rawya at the time was married her husband was in Cairo he had a job and were living in Cairo, Rawya was strong and you know t- you could rely on her so we told her we'll do it, how? She said I'll take care of everything I just need a place, and I need a license and someone to assist me, so we told her we'll do it, so we were done the club was running, we'll make the institute, how? You want a place? I call Mohammad my brother may he rest in peace in London, all Kuwaitis had apartments there, but he did not live there he had an apartment in Al-Zamalek ma- he just bought it for me, aah I'll take your two apartments nobody's living there and they're completely empty with nothing, he said if you want just break the door and do what you want, Kuwait is gone why wouldn't my apartments go too? Take them and enjoy them, and can you believe we left it not knowing what happened to it afterwards, aa he said yes sure, let's go, we broke the door there were no keys we broke the door down and it was in a bad shape the paint was because it wasn't occupied humidity and all and the guys painted it it was easy in Egypt, it was painted and looked its best, so we got that down, so she said don't worry about the equipment we'll get them what do you want now? She said I want a mattress, if not two mattresses then one, and I want chairs... chairs? So Rawya told her OK I'll get Ahmad to get us chairs it's easy and cheap in Egypt it wasn't a big deal aa they bought chairs and brought them, what about the mattress? I said I'd bring one from my sister's apartment [laughs], she said OK, so I got a mattress from Sherifa poor thing, we put the mattress and everything to prepare for a patient to supposedly lay on not a table they wanted a mattress, I don't know the reason behind the mattress I still don't know why a mattress you know not a table for the doctor to lay on- aa the patient, and what else did they want, they told every one of us to bring pens and papers, there was nothing, it became an institute, and she had two teaching at the institute and she was the third. We admitted 300 male and female students of all ages, male and female I mean we did not say it was going to be for males or females only, but the admitted students had to promise that on the first d- when Kuwait is liberated they had to go in, to help in the hospitals we're not teaching you, it is free it cost us nothing, but we don't teach you and exert ourselves doing so and then you don't go to Kuwait to help, and the - because the certificate will be accreditted by the minister of health, I remember it was at the time Abdul-Aziz Al-Mukhled may he rest in peace, aa and I remember I called Abdul-Rahman Al-Mehilan he was a minister at the time, we knew him, he was our chalet neighbor [laughs], a friend of his sister so I told him so and so so he said it's done, I'll come and accredit the certificates, and that's it go with God's blessing, I swear by Allah it was 300 students since we started till they graduated to you know k- assistant nurse, not a nurse, an assistant nurse, what does an assistant nurse do? They receive the patient from the door, admits him and prepares him takes his what's it called pressure and give injections, that's an assistant nurse, knows how to carry one how to handle it if it's broken and such, and thank God my son was one of the ones who graduated my son not Saleh but Bader he was older than Saleh he was younger than the age limit, aaa Bader now knows how to inject needles and take blood pressure I swear by God, aaa what's important aa this was an experience for me I mean, it was like a dream to be honest, it was like a dream of establishing a nursing institute out of nothing, from nothing if one were to make a nursing institute the first thing they'd ask for is a budget [laughs] or I can't do it, unlike what we d- they couldn't do it the officials she went to every day telling them they had to worry about nothing just give me a place, give me a place.

Which month of the invasion was this?

Umm... umm, you see the graduation so I'm not mistaking the graduation they were supposed to graduate umm, no it had nothing to do with that no it wasn't with the graduation, I can't remember but the invasion was just 7 months take 2 or 3 months of it so maybe it was a little before the liberation.

Aa and you still got news from Kuwait?

Yes, because at the headquarters all the men were there sharing whatever news they received.

What news did you get?

We used to watch the CNN honestly, the CNN was our broadcaster, full stop, that's all I remember.

What were you watching on CNN?

There were not radio stations, s- aa immediate news, everything all the news coming to us immediately.

Like what for example affected you and remember it to this day?

Of the news? Umm other than the li- other than the liberation.

Other than the liberation.

Other than the liberation, aah I don't know I aaah we have friends in in in Iraq and you know how related to Iraq we are in Kuwait, kinship and familial relations and everything everything ha, like we're all you know even the ones in Saudi Arabia you'd see that umm from Bahrain I mean Kuwaiti women umm I mean Kuwaiti people came from everywhere, nothing is indigenous to Kuwait to become an authentic Kuwaiti, everyone's come from an area, so we have strong relations with Iraq, I have a friend she's like family that I cherish I love her very much they're very patriotic in fact their son was imprisoned by aaa Saddam and was tortured, one of their children and a elderly and respected doctor, and l- their son you know was in the army by coincidence he was forced to enter Kuwait, you have to go in Kuwait, so he used to tell us afterwards- I knew from his sister that he's saying he'd go in houses, he was forced as an officer, I'd die he'd everything is in my eyes aa your friend I don't know directly, it doesn't mean an- he's in my eyes aa your friend, because everything from Kuwait where did it come from? From Louloua from where from Louloua where- you know? aa people that came from Iraq go call Louloua she'd do this and that for you I mean there are relati- he says I go in houses with a bleeding heart, I don't know- he'd tell her that, he also says that he sometimes hides things so they won't take it, what affected me really hard is that- I know them they're patriotic and they're torture victims of Saddam, he came on the aa CNN, I saw it in Egypt ha, he saidK I aa I aa I Saddam is and he started swearing at Saddam, swearing and swearing hysterically, he was then an officer in uniform saying he's against this and I don't know what aa the- I don't know he was swearing and swearing, I was horrified wai! He's done! His mother is going to die die die that's it he's done, of course after that he did not go back to Iraq he swore at him on the CNN and escaped, his mother afterwards fell ill and they took her to Dubai and she died immediately because- I felt bad, I, his uncle was tortured by him and was imprisoned him for a few years, aa aa afterwards aa of course he's now an immigrant in Canada but he suffers from psychological issues, I know him now he's still there I mean, aa he swore at him and did not come back he said I was venting for the world to hear I'm going to swear I'm an officer because of him, let me vent I'm now in Kuwait and I'll escape from Kuwait, he hadn't come back, what do I say I used to hide things so those people won't take it, and I'll tell you something I heard aa there's a house aa in Dahiya and officers took it, aand the neighbors told us, after the liberation and they left they told us they went inside and it wasn't touched I swear they felt that it had the fragrance of incese, there were some like that and others like the ones who took Al-Nafisi houses in Shuwaikh three adjacent houses with a Diwaniya, they wrecked it and damaged it they even burned the bathtub, yes, they opened the s, the the sa, the what's it called the box what is it called the-

The safe?

The safe, and pardon me they put garbage in it, you see not all people are the same, aa I mean the thing that what’s it called of course the greatest thing was when they woke me up and aaa aa I mean when Kuwait was liberated, but I couldn’t enjoy the liberation, aa immediately aa my sister in London Sherifa had a brain aneurysm, she was worried all the time because she was responsible for us responsible for the office her office in Al-Salhiya, aa all her official papers nobody thought of it, no one thought of having back-up or put that for themselves so everything was there everything, so I was very upset over it she had a brain aneurysm so I had to leave my children and Ahmad and go to her, so I couldn’t enjoy the liberation and couldn’t enjoy the graduation, the students graduation, I wasn’t in the students with the students when they graduated Al-Mehilan came and gave them their certificates, these are aa a few good I mean not good points rather upsetting aa, aa I mean.

Aaand when did you go back to Kuwait?

We went back immediately, aaa, I mean we didn’t stay long we didn’t stay a while mo- we went back immediately, we went back went back went back I mean the- we didn’t go back because Ahmad had asthma we didn’t go back with the dust they said wait until its gone the the fires of what’s it called.

Oil fires.

The oil yes because it’s polluted, and after that we came back but I don’t remember-

You flew back?

Yes.

Aa how was what did you feel when you first, when you arrived to Kuwait?

Honestly aa in a daze, I swear I was in a daze you’re asking me how I felt? I swear on my father’s grave I was in a daze I can’t remember anything, Look I remember the that but I don’t remember-

What was the first thing you saw when you arrived?

The first thing was our house.

Do you remember how the streets were?

Aaa no aa honestly- the dust they were talking about was gone, I went in and saw the black in our little house, black, I mean filthy, so humans are vain and a little bit selfish he now wants to sit i- aaa after being far from home after this he wants to go back to a clean home, and that’s it it happened that we tidied up the house and sat and all.

How was the let’s call it the transitional phase to a semi-normal life?

Honestly it was us who made it semi-normal through determination, I mean at the time I told you we were aa we started meeting again, and we went back aa to that and Louloua Al-Qetami and Aaliyah- Aadlah Al-Sayer were responsible for the society they came back, and they said girls you’re responsible for the young girls so that’s your activity and all so come back to the society so we may hold the elections.

This was in 91?

No 92, umm, aa aa 91 92 I can’t tell the year aa if we started say around the beginning of aa, I don’t know what month you know I don’t know I have to check in the reports yes s- which month, we held the election, and we gathered the girls who were with us back in those days aa because they were clearly active, thanks is due to Aadlah and Louloua Al-Qetami because they asked us to come back and finally start working, the society must come back, and this is something I won’t forget by Louloua Al-Qetami, honestly I won’t forget it no matter what, I always tell her that, I tell her that this is my responsibility now you handed it to us and advised us and I won’t leave until I have done the same as you, and now we’re implementing this once we see an active member we tell her to come over for a sit-down, anyways, aa we started our events and we held the first aa international conference in 1993, aa women political, economic and social empowerment [laughs] the biggest conference we’ve organized, aa it was attended by aa the head of the UN women’s committee her name sounds like, oh my Angela Mangola something like that, she was dark-skinned, aa she said she came for one day saying I came to see who are these women who after 7 months of diaspora come back to organize an international conference? To demand these demands, I’ll tell you the name of the aa the conference, and the date is better huh it was the first of aa what’s it called, first cabinet aa 92 93 I know that but I mean, to be more specific, aa and that’s it I’m travelling tomorrow, and this I remember very very very well like it’s happening in front of my eyes and like she’s talking to me now, because it is I mean something aa y- I mean it makes one happy and upset I don’t know how, of course more happy but, aa whoa, really? We did a simple thing it’s incredible that she’d say that she came just for the opening and she’d go back, I swear to God.

What were the topics discussed?

All about women empowerment.

Did you talk about the invasion phase?

Everything I’m now working on my personal archive, aa I swear to God the opening speech I swear is still relevant today if I read this paper and read it [laughs] it will be the same thing [claps her hands] isn’t it incredible? It’s impossible I swear I quoted from it for my speech tomorrow I swear by my father’s grave I’m not lying to you, it’s like it is made for today, it’s the same topics like if you watch old plays, it’s the same problems, I don’t know when we’re going to get over them, thankfully through the society’s determination and the society only, and I say that loud and proud, it is us who got it, don’t they get a championship cup? It is us who got the political rights, and we got it through confrontations and we endured a lot of backhanded comments and endured exhaustion and ru- the running around in the streets and having to squeeze through crowds of men it’s not easy, we were raised believing this is a taboo so how could we go in? Seriously? We’d call a candidate and tell him we’re coming to you, would you like a sp- speaker? Would you like us to speak? Some of them a lot of them would say no no you know my constituency is difficult and I can’t let women in then the Democratic Platform (minbar democrati) started setting a tent for- for women, and little by little we started going to women’s seating areas, we sat in women only m- segregated, we began to s sending questions to them, w- write on papers and send it to them to ask a question, then I remember aa umm aa in Daiyyah, A- Ali Al-Baghli was a candidate he said there’s a women-only seating area but if you wish to come in you could come in, so we went in-

He was one of the first to say that?

Umm perhaps the first to say whoever wants to go in could go in but you bear the responsibility there were people sitting there a few went in I was one of them.

Describe this experience to me.

With me was Samira Al-Sayyed Omar – it was a knee-buckling experience, I’m telling you I mean don’t think of me as a liberal and have no problems with this no, it was difficult, it was difficult at Abdulla Al-Nibari’s when we went out we said girls why don’t we leave, let’s go sit outside why are we sitting in the tent? Al-Minbar Al-Demoqrati was the first to set a tent?

What year was that?

Ugh come on don’t ask me that [laughs].

Was it after 93?

No no yes at the time it was Shaikha Al-Nesf who was president, So Abdullah let he speak in in ma- aa in aa what’s it called, and the first to let women speak was Dr., Saleh Al-Yasin he worked at the university and m- aand aa the aa the campaign of his was in Al-Rumaithiyah, he let Badriyah Al-Awadh Dr. Badriyah Al-Awadhi and Dr. Moudhi Al-Humoud speak and he was sitting in the middle and we have a picture of his-

Were you present?

Definitely of course.

What-

Definitely!

How was the situation?

How could I not be present [laughs], huh? Sh- I’ll describe it to you they were seated like this, the men were that side and the aa I’m not saying “hareem” the women and there was a partition, but the speakers are mixed [laughs] but we accepted that accepted that accepted that, I even recall a car passed by a threw firecrackers those that make a loud noise when you throw them? They weren’t happy but that’s their problem.

B- Aaa who who were they?

[Coughs] Of course we don’t know they were in cars, [clears her throat] aa these were the first female speakers, Shaikha spoke at Abdullah Al-Nibari’s, and the first to set a tent for women were the Al-Minbar Al-Demoqrati, and the first was Saleh Al-Yasin then Abdullah Al-Nibari, and I told you the first to tell us if you want to go in you could go in [laughs] we were a few that went I remember I only remember myself and Samira Al-Sayyed Omar and I don’t know I mean after s- I mean, who was with us t- that’s it, a small group we went in and sat on the side there were people outside all the women were outside, anyways, so there were attempts but you were raised to be timid you were raised to be you know, this is men’s work [laughs] you have no business here you’re here to break that image this taboo it’s not permissible, to the extent I swear when we left the tent and went to sit outside at Abdullah Al-Nibari’s you know it was an incredible feeling, incredible to be daring aaa when we went inside the tent we were shy, like looking around and s- we went in wearing Abayas by the way huh, mm-

Aa-

We used to tell them to go wearing abayas, we were trying to maintain the image so that no one could ruin it, if one was sent dressed inappropriately [clicks her fingers] but thankfully at that time there weren’t much photography, we didn’t want people to talk, the little ones won’t hear us but were the most you know like-

What was society’s reaction to this?

Umm-

[knocking at the door]: Hello how are you dear?

Close it close it.

Please go on.

We insisted on wearing Abayas, so no one could disrupt the issue, but I’d like to point something out before this and before the aa the invasion at the time of Monday meetings we were also active then, before attending these and the demands, aa by attending campaign headquarters, by attending the the campaign headquarters we weren’t demanding then we’d ride our cars and go park outside in our cars next to the tents because back then they set tents and you could hear the microphones they were very clear and we’d listen rolling down the and listen, then they realized there were women coming and listening outside the tents in their cars listening in so they pu- they would tune in to FM and these were the Al-Minbar headquarters huh, aa they’d tune it to FM, so we’d turn on the radio and listen comfortably, and roll the windows up and sometimes it’d get hot, this is something I haven’t mentioned before by the way, when we came back and and we formed the Political rights monitoring committee in Kuwait with legal experts aa men of course huh lawyers and with us the female members of the society and the specifically the board of directors, we’d meet in the society and plan aa for a month like this month what are the steps we’re taking next month- You know a planned program which included calling candidates and visiting that and many other things we did.

What were the challenges you faced were there aa I mean someone against this aa movement in society in general-

Yes of course.

Or like in newspapers or?

Of course of course of course definitely definitely, we’d hear through the newspapers, actually one editorial column wrote that these are layabouts, I swear layabouts, and I think-

He meant the society? About th-

The people demanding he means us meaning we’re layabouts with nothing to do going home to drink tea as he put it, not that we had nothing to do and this one was who was it this Fouad Al-Hashim, you know? He wrote this, and another wrote sa- and the one who wrote a clear statement that was aa what’s his name aa, oh my God I don’t know, he has an unforgettable name, aa who was it that, a second time I don’t know why I keep forgetting him? He has an unforgettable name, an Islamist member, umm?

Fouad Al-Refaei.

Aa, him.

Waleed Al-Refaei?

Waleed Al-Tabtabaei, Waleed Al-Tabtabaei, Waleed Al-Tabtabaei wrote a statement who demands that was his statement who demands from us the political right wants ho- to spread homosexuality and bastards in society, I swear on my father’s grave that was his statement we have it written down documented and saved, and she we filed a lawsuit against him at the time the head of the society was Shaikha Al-Nesf, she herself answered him wi- in- with a lawsuit that was carried out by Wasmi Al-Wasmi hoping we’d win it but of course he aa he did not win it unfortunately because he said I mentioned no names, so who are you representing? I said we’re the ones who- he said no I did not mention you, that’s what he said.

What did you say about a protest you organized a protest did you go out on many protests?

Oh my [laughs] aa of course you see we went out since 92 in a protest.

The first protest after the liberation?

The first national assembly after the liberation was in 92, we went out m- the biggest protest we went out in the morning and stood by the school where the el-

Do you remember the date?

Yes all the dates are available but not now [laughs].

Yes… aand you went out in Al-Shuwaikh you said?

[Snaps her fingers] Ahmad Baqer.

[Al-Ali laughs]

It’s not possible for me not to forget, umm yes, we stood in Al-Shuwaikh by Al-Ghazali school, a large group and we still have the pictures by the way huh, Aa holding large signs ‘with you in 94’ what could it mean? We were in 92, it’s good that the aa the signs remind you like it or not huh, one thousand and nine hundred and- aa we’re with you in one thousand and nine- it means we as aa women we stood by you at the time of the the aa the voting I mean aa the elections don’t they go to a school? It was Al-Ghazali school in Al-Shuwaikh, and at the afternoon we gathered in Bayan in a public square and walked from Bayan to Mishref, walking, to campaign headquarters-

You were all women?

It was the largest, all of them! All women no one man was with us, with us was to be accurate aa Adel, Adellll the he’s an astronomer what’s his name? Adel-

Al-Ojairy?

L- no no no Adel, it was him and Amer Al-Tamimi aa they were with us in the committee and m- Adel Al-Tamimi once presided over the committee the- the women’s rights I mean aa, the women’s political rights monitoring committee and the women’s committee that’s what it was twice we changed its name, Adel the astronomer, yes I mean were-

But they mos- the majority were women?

The majority were women yes.

And it was a large number?

Yesss the largest protest imagine in 92 the largest protest it was a strange sight huh, you see people became enthusiastic, this is what I think I mean really really really um- aware, aa this was in what’s it called then in 92 before the protest for the right the aa the I mean to elect- the elections in campaign headquarters the place where people go to vote prior to that they go register, so we gathered myself and the Al-Shalfan girls Laila Al-Othman Shaikha Al-Farhan and Wadhha Ahmad Al-Khatib, and these all appear in the photos in the so- with us was Mai Al-Nouri the wife of A- Amer Al-Tamimi, and w- with us I think we were really a large group.

Thuraya Al-Baqsami?

No no no no, anyways myself and Laila Al-Othman because we live in Al-Dahiya we have to go to Al-Dahya’s police station to register, just like that with us huh, so we went there and went inside and he told us what he was laughing what how’s that my business I told him tell us you don’t want to, give me a paper I want to m- file a lawsuit, give me a paper so he said no I’m not authorized to give you a paper, it was 91 they were still stubborn, what do we do? So he said go take it from the aa what’s it called the election committee in Sharq next to Dasman, so we rode our cars and went there, we were a lot there, we went there there was a picture of everyone some were on the floor and some sitting on that this picture became quite widespread, aa sitting on the couches and on the floor there were young people and children and old- I think the picture might remind me of the names, aa he sat us down to have a discussion, we had a discussion and talked and it turned into a lecture with him, why do we need this right and why is that no no no no no and that’s it then we dispersed, we started doing this every third of March- March Eighth, international women’s day, with every election registration and election, and in every ev- I mean at the time of elections when campaign headquarters are set and such we’d have programs and plans to visit to stand up to sit and to cry out and to n- everything everything everything, we wrote petitions that we presented to the national assembly speaker at the time it was Jassim Al-Qetam- aa Jassim Al-aa Al- aa

Al-Khurafi?

Al-Khurafi, we always made sure to have a man with us and there’s a picture of us I was holding the it was this aa big petition file for aa the petition, Jassim Al-Qetami may God rest his soul was with us, and and and, aaand in the picture it- of course Moudhi Al-Humoud was with me Nouriyah Al-Roumi was with me when we went to Jassim Al-Qetami to hand him the thing, there’s more but I don’t know I don’t remember very well, ha! [snaps her fingers] and Dr. not aa-, Al-Humoud, Dr. so-and-so Al-Humoud, she was also a professor in Kuwait university, we went inside to give him the thing, and another time Jassim Al-Qetami was with us in the International Women’s day we all stood together wearing t-shirts aa with the International Women’s Day printed on it with the what’s it called the logo and then w- aa we dug in front of the national assembly we dug a lot to plant a tree, and with us was Jassim Al-Qetami may God rest his soul, so he’s an important figure you know, a symbol for human rights, aa aand honestly we should not forget the role of Kuwaiti men I mean I told you earlier the first to demand in his campaign program was Al-Minbar Al-Demo- Demoqrati’s Salem Al-Marzouq in 71, aa Ahmad Al-Tukhaim or was it Bader Al-Tukhai- Ahmad Al-Tukhaim may God rest his soul he was a member of parliament and also spoke for women’s political rights and there are other of course Sami Al-Munayyes definitely aa so aa of course Sami Al-Mun are the people’s representatives I mean like Ahmad Al-Khatib Abdullah Al-Nibari Ahmad Al-Nefisi, so they weren’t unaware of the women’s rights issue like I told you Amero Al-Tamimi was very devoted to the he was very loyal and helpful, aaand he was very helpful, umm, so the role of Kuwaiti men I mean when I went to the court aa against the ministry of interior because he refused to let me register my name we had a strong-willed volunteer lawyer who was unwavering and the plan had a 100% success rate and it was a winning case 1000% but because it was winning and they couldn’t do that they moved it to the the aa, the constitutional court, and come the day of the constitutional court and we went and with us were the journalists and photographers we thought that’s it today they’re going to enact it they’d tell us you’re right, but he told him no you are in the las- first five minutes, you don’t have a power of attorney for them in the constitutional court, bye bye [laughs] aa of course that was a loophole-

How did you feel?

Wow it wasn’t just a slap, the aa it threw me off to another world to another planet and how? He told him I swear I still remember this moment when he told him, aa look your highness I mean your excellence I don’t know what they call them in courts, representing them- aa representing myself and Hend Al-Shalfan by the way ha, representing them in all courts what does it mean all courts? So he told him that’s not going to work, umm, aa so aa I mean thank God I mean we managed to creature media pressure, they say you sought outside support and to those I say no if someone is suspicious we’re telling him we have not sought out aa aa foreign actors and have not sought we have not internationalized the cause we relied on the constitution we relied on the Amir’s speech in b- aa Jeddah when he said Kuwaiti women deserve to be in the right place in a free Kuwait and we applauded him for that and told him to keep his promise, to H.H. the Amir, and to Sheikh Saad said the same thing in in umm, in aa New York in his speech he applauded Kuwait women so we decided this is our time since it’s like this aa aa in fact in fact in fact in fact the soldiers who came and participated in the liberation said and we’re aware of that that we’re not going to fight for liberation and let our soldiers die for a country with partial democracy take this from me, we’re not going to let our soldiers die in a country that doesn’t believe in women’s rights why would we lose our children? This was the pressure it wasn’t our pressure, we did not seek out people we sought the media when we came out the media was on our side, the media would see us and we made sure back then they were very cooperative aa the aa Reuters and in fact it’s them that come running to us if we have a protest we’d tell them to come on this day we’re going to this so-and-so place, Reuters is for the entire world so this was our weapon not not re- not relying on foreign support, our weapon is our constitution and we organized a lecture saying our weapon is our constitution.

Aa this was in the nineties aa and what was your work with the the society in the nineties?

This all of this was in the nin- this is the work we did.

Aa have aa for instance have you aa organized courses for Kuwaiti women-

Yes of course of course of course we did in 2005, aa-

In the nineties?

Ha?

In the nineties era.

No the nineties-

The focus was on-

The focus was on the rights aa the political right and the right for Kuwaiti women married to non-Kuwaitis, the first th-

What did you do with this issue?

The first thing we did was open an office, I can’t deny credit where credit is due Dr. Botha- aa Badriyyah Al-Awadhi, she was ahead of us ahead of the society on a personal level, personal, she used to meet with them in the lawyers’ society but the society wasn’t that cooperative with Badriyyah, because the issue is not m- I mean it’s not, not everyone is worth cooperating with or en-

Sensitive.

Engage with and this isn’t easy by the way ha, so we told Badriyyah look we’re a- we have a group some of whom are victims, and and they’re our colleagues I mean, so we and your group how about we establish in the society and open the office and at the society I was under some pressure from the woman in charge they weren’t completely on board-

Accepting.

They weren’t but I swear when you’re right and you believe in this right, and you are determined, you’ll do it no matter what, so we founded the office and we sat there and and we collected the cases and wrote down their problems we wrote down-

What were the problems?

Their problems were you know trivial daily life problems, like she’d go to the clinic and they’d tell her that I don’t do aa you’re not- your son isn’t Kuwaiti, aa she’d go for instance for a driver’s license your son isn’t Kuwaiti they’re not going to give him a driver’s license, the residency of course is disaster they torment her and insult her to give her a residency for one year, aa the school was too a- most importantly the schools used to go out to the yard when there were- at the back of doors the mo- I don’t know how we did not see it in my time I personally did not see it, at the back of the door they’d write the father aa is non-Kuwaiti the mother is Kuwaiti, so he’d go to the yard and be bullied, I swear, umm these were the three or four problems, so we aa as a society you know ha, aa we reached out to the people in charge with with with thank God thank God thank God we reached out this is a day in my life that I can’t forget at the cabinet for the meeting when I was walking in the cabinet building and on the table wow I mean it was a huge table and like with us were the ministry of interior and may God re- rest her soul Latifa Rayib she worked for the ministry of aa social affairs, aand aa Education-

[Al-Ali clears her throat]

And and, interior education social affairs and health! The third one I forgot- ar a fifth I forgot but the because why do I have to remember it aa because it was named the quintet committee, a quintet committee of five ministries with their phones so what do you want as a society? Whatever problem you run into for this group of people? Call so-and-so in the social affairs so-and-so in education so-and-so—and actually as- they did a lot, daily life has become more comfortable, but there are many other things, her housing right her right to a residency her right to education her right to equal pay, so it involves a lot, and that’s it to this day in 2014, 2014 I felt myself like I’ve become and- chan- I have changed, the and afterwards our work has increased and the society accumulated aa many problems, so because there were issues where we hold no power over the public works we’ve brought many ministers aa I mean ho- housing a thousand ministers we have hosted to give a talk, a thousand ministers a minister of health and what not aa- I mean we’d host them talking to them about the issue and the minister departs and another one comes I mean no- then there was a phase of these phases of this the the political instability in Kuwait which made you aa umm I mean that’s it it begins to drain your energy, then umm who do you go to who do you turn to? The first people you turn to are now people who aren’t near you if the last the first the one before last he said women priorities are number ten number ten the priorities of women issues, we used to go to the women’s committee we’d go meet at the time of Abdulwahhab Al-Haroun we used to meet at the women’s committee and all our issues would discussed, when it became a woman we stopped going they weren’t inviting us? So it was a little the last woman in charge was Maasouma after Maasouma that’s it it was over, we stopped nobody is listening to women’s issues or anything, the women’s committee must be dissolved in the national assembly, five year six years it has been idle unfortunately I’m saying this with a heavy heart huh.

Mm.

So it’s evidently clear that at this time women are not of interest to them their materialistic issues that consume them this is a topic we won’t discuss, let’s go back to the topic 2014…

We formed a committee from – ha, there were two who evoked enthusiasm in me, I don’t know them honestly to this day I don’t even know where they live, two or thr- three they came here and they were sitting in that corner and they were telling me we don’t know you and you don’t know us but we did our research, and in allll the research we’ve read about women issues we saw you saw you saw you.

Mm.

So we said we’re going to meet this woman and see what can she help us with in our case, I told them look we’re unorganized and unfunded, we by the way aa there’s no enthusiasm to volunteer work, if we in the board of directors are seven people the ones who work are three or four, so e- I can’t possibly spread myself over twenty challenges, we’d work with the affected people I have no problem with that, but if the affected people do not come and do not work, we’ll be in the front just come and work for it.

Who are these aa?

The girls?

The yes.

Teachers, teachers, she’s married to her Saudi maternal cousin and despite being Saudi is better than any other nationality but she is still unjustly treated because of her children her children’s residency in her housing in her right to housing, so these are two issues of utmost utmost utmost importance for them, I told them look we’ll have a meeting tomorrow if you want us with you but you have to work so they said yes, out of the three one came and she’s still with us, so I’m showing you working like this mm I mean you’re fighting for someone else’s right yes it’s alright it’s a pleasure to do this but you also want so I told them look in 2014 we have to work in a group, we can’t, a group of non-profit societies, so we contact the human rights we contacted the graduates’ we contacted Rawasi that’s the Family Safety, we became ten societies, we contacted all societies whoever likes to join our meeting here ten societies demanding this right, and we organized organized an event, it wasn’t bad we didn’t get the results of course but we moved the issue for the aa aa parliament members the aa people aa in charge but like I told you I have talked to a parliament member, a parliament member the only one I can talk to not in this session the session th- the previous two sessions it was possible I w- it was possible for me to talk to him I said so-and-so this and that, really? This? They had no idea because the issue wasn’t discussed publicly no one knows of it, and they don’t know the magnitude and spread of the tragedy, how is it essential to their lives and their stability, their dignity a Kuwaiti woman should not be humiliated, anyways I swear he didn’t know, anyways I’m telling you there are people who get to the national assembly unaware of it but we keep reminding them and try through the media through conferences here and meetings with umm a lot of officials calling them to hear the issue aa and discuss it with them, hopeful but this issue is not moving forward a lot, so we said we’ve got no other solution but the constitutional court, we went to the constitutional court and filed three appeals in the Kuwaiti women’s housing right in general, not just the aa-

The ones married to non-

No, aa because the one married to a non-Kuwaiti even if she were granted a house after she dies they give her children a one year grace period after which they have to vacate the house even if they vacate it to hell they have no business with them whatsoever, yes, aa the other thing a single woman, or the one who doesn’t have a or divorcee, they grant her a house, they grant her along with a sister or relative, she says how do I live- my sister is a- she’s irate I don’t want I mean no two women can live with an old woman with her children and that one is a divorcee with her children how’s that going to be, I mean there there are things that deprive women of this right while as men e- enjoy all these privileges even if his wife is from hell itself after fifteen years or I don’t know five years they give her a Kuwaiti passport, this is a tragedy you know? We don’t want a citizenship nor a passport we want dignity, we want a life her to live in her house her house that she owns and her children own we want a permanent residency equal education for them, and and you know equal job opportunities too, just these demands, and we’re continuing in this committee that consists of ten non-profit societies.

Umm can you talk to me if you’d like if we have time now about women obtaining their political rights since you were-

Mm.

I mean part of it, or d do you prefer keeping this for another day?

No there isn’t much to it huh? I mean when we I was in this meeting with the non-profit societies they were tr trying to form a union for the non-profit societies and this is one stage of the stages and how the society stood against this the the the meeting the or- I mean forming this union, we stood against the women’s union because the women’s union was not fair and the foundational system aa they gave it to us to discuss it, so when we went to discuss the women’s union after the liberation, aa we found that fo- this is a permanent residency my heart was set on the father’s residency but aa a permanent presidency we objected to the permanent presidency, so they said no this article stays good bye, so we left it at that, the Social Affairs tried we’re not giving you ben- benefits we said we don’t want any you don’t get to go to conferences we don’t want to you’re not going to get anything we don’t want anything just leave us where we are we don’t want this we’re going to work and we’re going to finance ourselves and we’re going to do everything, leave us the work is going to bring us what’s it called, I swear if I remember correctly at the time I don’t know aa Jassim Al-Oun or Faisal Al-Hajji at the time maybe Jassim Al-Oun he said go ahead we came with a union they wanted to make a union for all the non-profit societies, of course who stood against it? The society, always, so I was at this meeting in Al-Shuwaikh aa in umm the Journalists society they were still leading the journalists they had no no problem this for this union to take over and belittle the work since the work lacks vitality, the civil society in Kuwait is beginning to shrink because of the lack of volunteers and the lack of the I mean they’d say why would I go attend a lecture or a forum I could just go online and watch it so with the removal of this feature the sparkle was gone unless you’re a notable international speaker or such and people would be excited to go and listen, this thing decreased, and the of course the the luxurious life- I mean affluent-

Mm.

As for the youth they haven’t been taught in their lives in school about volunteering and such therefore it reflects on civil society and it’s already dead, you’re coming now to have more control over it to kill it even more? It’s enough that the Social Affairs came up with a law to k k kill us, and the society gathered all the non-profit societies here, we brought eighty nine societies all saying the same and we sign that this is goes against the development of a society against against against against and it’s unacceptable and we signed it she said I don’t this you’re all signing on one paper? No even though it’s an empty paper with nothing on th- I mean it has nothing, so every society made a copy and send it to g- to Hend Al-Sabeeh, we stood against her like that, I told her you can’t undermine the work of that, you have a dysfunctional system, a new system that’s not going to work on us, and I mean we defeated it you know they’re now quiet, so these attempts to control civil society is part of it, I have digressed a little it’s alright I’ll go back to the day of that I was present at the me- and I make sure to attend because later we’re lobbying that’s you don’t you understand…

[Al-Ali laughs]

Aa come open your eyes come it’s not- ha I swear he’s not paying attention, we lobbied and we’re cutting the that, I was at the meeting-

Where was the meeting?

Umm, aa in the Journalists Society, but I don’t remember I was or was it at the Red Crescent when I received a phone call I think I’m now beginning to doubt it, we also had a meeting at the Red Crescent, anyways I received a phone call when I saw who it was I was shocked, I can’t tell you who it was it was a figure [gasps] so I stood up and left I cannot not answer- he answered, he said I’m now at the meeting they’re going to approve the political rights, you’re the first one I’m telling, of course I don’t want to say his name, first now I answered the phone I can’t say and they’re going to ask me who it was, aa I sat sat sat but I was brooding brooding brooding but then it was true it came on aa the news after at one it was official, the meeting approved what’s that aaa.

Women’s political rights?

Yes.

How did you feel?

Oh my mm I don’t know I was absent-minded I don’t know I now went back to the meeting with the Red Crescent and we were meeting with may God rest his soul Baryas Al-Baryas we have just returned from Kosovo from a trip and we were going to him, aa so sh I mean I wasn’t able to umm m there was nothing I don’t know who to tell I have to share the joy but of course I can’t tell anyone because he said, I’m at the meeting but it’s going to be approved, yes that’s it, that was all the tel- the maybe the person I’m never going to forget and I’m grateful for him because my relationship with him isn’t that strong at all at all at all, and for me that’s what made me feel so strange oh my he’s chosen me to tell me? I mean I was happy because you know of what I- the efforts I put and thank God I mean, yes someone appreciated it.

What happened afterwards? The steps you took after this news?

Aa that’s all this this it was the Amiri will, nnnot through a vote in the assembly the aa at the assembly we don’t know about them, we heard it while we were meeting there, so the but it was through a wi the will, aa the Amiri will is also a form of pressure, and even if not I would respect the ones who said no it has to come through the national assembly not through an Amiri will I would respect that, but it made a pressure, that’s enough that you made it, you’ve reached the Amiri will I mean this was, on the day of the vote we attended all of us, we who-

De- describe that day.

The anthem we stood aa the I mean we were waiting aa holding each other like so so look I got goosebumps, even though we had a feeling you know that it’s going to win why, because the government if the Amir had a will and the government is voting, so they’re a majority come here, of course we were lobbying with them, at the time there were people and parliament members, unlike now.

Mm.

Unfortunately so, holding each other, the last vote bwaaaw we stood up like so and there’s a picture there it is I’ll show it to you we stood up holding each others’ hands all of us all of us all of us all of us and started Kuwait my homeland glory be to you! Remember that? And the anthem, and and he was pounding but he couldn’t anymore and he was quiet, he went quiet.

Your feelings de- could you describe them to me?

Oooh, I can’t after all these feelings, we were flying high flying flying flying and what started after we left that the phones began to ring from what’s it called, broadcasters and televisions and what’s it called for interviews and ooh look at the hairs, it was something something something, I mean more than regular joy, I mean you could be happy for your son getting married I was happy on his wedding, I was happy on my daughter’s wedding aa I was happy when she was engaged I was happy you know, I was happy when I had a grandson but this is determinative, determinative, you went through hardship determination and exhaustion you were insulted, aand many hurtful words about me I mean aa you were risking someone calling you at the least “baze’e” one who is shameless in Kuwaiti, the least they could say, you know what that means, how dare you sit among men but of course are we ones who who feel shame right? But this must happen, and just look at the joy, yes so aa.

What were your activities with the society-

I was-

Aa after this period?

I was always with the society since I was born [laughs] I was always in the society always since the beginnings befo- in the eighties to the nineties to-

I mean let’s say from 2010 to this day?

Even before the 2000s, I mean OK 2000 2002 and so and 2005, umm aa we passed that stage, 2010 we began to think of aa I mean the other issues to focus on all the issues that are important to women.

Like what?

We have projects too, you know it took a lot of effort from us too, you have the project aa you were trying to say [coughs] you don’t want a regular preschool because we have a lot of preschools in Kuwait some good and some bad and some commercial and some- so why would I open a preschool and work hard on it, we received aa the project idea from a colleague who has a problem with with aa the she wanted to have a preschool aa for the deaf in Kuwait there is none in any area, so she offered us aa the idea of a preschool for the deaf and we already have a preschool, I mean the building, so we said yes we’ll close this preschool the kids are not going to be lost because we can’t take expensive fees and we don’t want to work in a preschool for in every building there is a preschool, and this honestly was a correct decision, we took this project and when we are offered a project in the society be sure by God that if it is in our interest or its within our scope of work and our goals we would immediately take it and work hard until it is realized, and this came true and succeeded, and we celebrated its tenth year since the establishment of this preschool for the deaf- it’s called Al-Bustan we don’t say preschool for the deaf, a child comes to us unable to speak, and now graduates from colleges and universities, and now we have a graduate and working in the preschool she’s young, and at the end of every year they celebrate and you know in every celebration I’m heartbroken not for them, but for humans how with very little effort and very little material resources and philanthropists are always contributing in Kuwait as its built on philanthropists and contributions, and when the preschool was finally on its legs aa the general authority for the disabled affairs started helping they’ve come to see the results and started assisting even the general authority for Awqaf offered us to run a similar preschool they established and told us to run it, we don’t have the capabilities honestly we barely barely barely run ours, we can, you’re the general authority for Awqaf you can the general authority for Awqaf couldn’t aa run it, ours is running and we celebrated its tenth anniversary and today its twelve years, all due to the efforts and hard work and loyalty to this the volunteer work, and it’s worth noting the role of aa Haifa Al-Saqer, she was the one in cha- in charge of the preschool, she’s the one collecting donations from her circles and acquaintances, and the building for it to be furnished has to be differently furnished for the hearing-disabled and such, aa all if you go you’ll see the volu- the donors on the aa marble board with their names, all of whom are famous figures, we have not received a you know direct donation and no one es- different famous figures, so this you can aa you can do it even without an expense I mean what’s it called, and than God the society is running- the the preschool, and its activities are special and we have a website and everyone can enter and see- aa Instagram I mean, the society’s and they’d see the preschool activities I mean it has its own Instagram account, it’s name is Al-Bustan, umm and it’s running and they’re beautiful and I told you the best prize is that you graduated one and now they’re at th- in this and the other one is working and this one graduated and started working as a teacher in the preschool, and and the some of them graduated and went to schools, regular public schools or private regular schools, because they started to hear, you discovered that they could hear, you began working on treating their hearing you didn’t just try you implanted a cochlear we even help with cochlear implantation for those unable to afford it, with donations, so this is an effort and and humanitarian work mm that is not in the limelight and paraded and such but we’re happy that we’re doing this.

What are the other projects you mentioned?

Of the other projects is establishing the Al-Amal club, in the hospital for ca- the aa cancer when it was first founded, aa Makki Jouma’, we built an adjacent extension, adjacent to to the building where we receive the families and the children, so they won’t be in the corridors and be exposed to radiation and be exposed to infections and such so they’d sit and we’d offer them drinks and by the way even the drinks are presented to us free of charge from companies and we contribute too from the income of the society we contribute a little, aa things like biscuits and such then a television all forms of entertainment are available in that club, then we put a digital clock, so instead of having mothers worry if her number is up or its her turn in between one injection and the other an h- half an hour? For a child or for the patient huh, aa instead of sitting in a corridor for half an hour, she’d sit in the club and look at the clock there’s my number- ee aa it’s her turn and she’d go, and we’d organize parties for those who are cured their families throw them a party either in the society or in the club and in public holidays we entertain them with- I mean in these occasions ha, and if it’s someone’s birthday we’d throw them a birthday party all done by the girls volun- the volunteers in the society, the success of this club aa we realized we needed to expand it, so we built a second story to isolate the families and the reception and there’s an employee who by the way cares about them and asks the doctor and cares for them, an employee through us the one running the club and cares for the families, its success made us open a second story filled with flippers I don’t know I don’t what’s it called small ping pong aa filled all of it with toys for the children all of it are donations from philanthropists to us, and this is all on a different floor aa upstairs because the children don’t sleep at the room poor things they come to the club to play a child should play with others why should he stay in his room, so this is what we have and it’s still successful thank God, its name is Al-Amal club, due to its success we were requested to form another one for the Psychiatric hospital for the patients at the psychiatric hospital at psychiatric hospital is our colleague Dr. Bothayna Al-Mogahwi, she’s tr- she’s therapist there and told us you have to see and visit and indeed we went to visit myself and the president of the society at the time Shaikha and a group we visited this thing it broke our hearts I mean s- laying in the corridor one over the other over aa I mean you know what I mean, a tragic sight, indeed they need to take them out of this corridor take them out of these rooms take them out- they’ve got nothing, so we made aa they psychiatric hospital were difficult difficult, they gave us a kitchen kitchen aa central one, a central kitchen I don’t wish it on my enemies but philanthropists helped again some donated marble and one donated a kitchen and one donated the aluminum and one donated everything, we made it, and they brought in supervisors they brought, ha even a playground outside at the garden we made a basketball field, they’d bring them to the club everyday, and the same volunteers would go and throw birthday parties- to make them happy to cook- they’d let them bring Ramadan meals, birthday part- aa all the occasions, then they’d teach them sewing how to cook and what not, I mean their lives changed in the club indeed I mean it was a success success success because some of them had depression of course we don’t receive extreme cases ha, we receive light cases I mean not th eons with depression the ones who’s got nothing but their families threw them in the psychiatric hospital, aa just like that so they could say, they want to be rid of her aa the people like that come collecting aa collecting collecting aa what’s it called I mean we focus on empowering women through projects.

Yes.

We extended that of course definitely to the woman and her family aa to children.

Yes, a moment let me just mention the date and the aa-

Ah, OK.

And the location, aa the date today is nineteenth of December two thousand and nineteen and we’re in Al-Khaldiyah, aand the time is almost ten and- aa eleven twenty.

Eleven twenty.

Aa Madam Louloua again thank you this is the third session of the oral history documentation project at AUK, the last time we met we stopped at aa the society projects, aa and you mentioned the preschool aa can you mention other projects?

Yes we mentioned the m aa the beginning of the foundation of the society cared for women to empowering them so it was the first society that cares about literacy classes for women in association with the ministry of education when it opened, aa evening classes for women, aa I’m sorry the other way around morning classes for women aa because the ministry provided morning classes- aa evening classes so not all women could enroll in these classes aa because of course housewives at the afternoon have their children with them so the society opened classes aa in the morning-

Where were these classes?

So it covered- it was here in Al-Khaldiya in in, an old building that is now there, aa there are pictures of it too documented I mean it’s still and we’ve put it in the book that’s hopefully going to come out around two thousand and twenty, aa aa this this was our work in education and it established at the same time, in sixty four aa a preschool aa an exemplary one they called it Al-Bustan preschool and it had branches in different branches there were four, one in Sabah Al-Salem one in Al-Sulaibekhat and one, be- of course after the invasion they were all closed except for one in the society’s headquarters, and it moved because of the aa destruction that happened during the invasion the aa they moved the aa the preschool to Al-Suwaber buildings that the government granted us temporarily, then we moved to a new building here of course through donators too, aa but this preschool turned into amm, should I give you the dates later or now?

Whichever you prefer.

Aa the umm for the deaf, because there wasn’t anyone caring for the children since childhood I mean they don’t talk and I think we talked about this subject previously? I’m not going to talk about then, aa regarding children the society cared for children too, aa we built at our place I mean we requested from aa the general authority for youth and sports God bless them, aa Al-Hamad, one from Al-Hamad family was its president, we went to him and told him we have a hole ready for aa a swimming pool but it was after the- before the invasion it was supposed to be a swimming pool, so it’s ready we just want you and indeed on their expense they built it the Youth and Sports they made it into a swimming pool that was benefitted of in the summer and I don’t know summer courses and such courses and benefitted of it financially, but at the end we thought to rent it out to a swimming school for young children from the age of 6 months it’d be more beneficial, so we rented it to this company and this company is owned by one of the members of the society, aa they care for children but teach them the basics of swimming to help safeguard them from I mean the large numbers a lot of houses started to build swimming pools in hotels so there were many cases of children drowning a lot of them drowned in a lot of accidents so now we’re hoping to contribute to take this responsibility that we I mean they learn how to swim from an early age, aa caring for childhood we cared for the Arabic language, Mr. Hamza have we talked about him the previous time? We didn’t, Mr. Hamza aa aa he used to teach elementary school aa Arabic language and he invented a method of play and it teaches children in an exciting and fun way, beneficial and easy, for children to eat up the Arabic language which is difficult in its nature.

Mr. Hamza what?

Al-Khayyat, Mr. Hamza was a teacher and he contributed in putting programs for the ministry of education, aa he retired aa before he retired we benefited from him because the mothers used to request him to apply this theory on their children and it was from the mothers I mean the the the demand was from the mothers for him to teach their children, they came to the society and said this Mr. Hamza is excellent and want him to teach our children in the summer, so we opened the hall for him and opened classes and opened whatever he wanted, do whatever you want to in the summer to teach children Arabic with his method, and he succeeded brilliantly I mean the the summer courses were in our place, once he retired he made the school, he founded the school we gave him the old building and now the school and the the aa I mean the waiting is a year for a student to be able to-

What was the name of the school?

Umm the what, L the Language Center, the Language Center- Oh my, Language what? I forgot, anyways umm… aa what was I going to say about for the the, the children-

This continued the-

I have to tell you the name- Oh my what’s wrong with me n- but m, mm.

This language school continued for a few years?

To this day.

It’s still available.

I told you to this day aa and he’s the one who distributed the Spelling Encyclopedia for free to we saw in Kuwait it was all in Kuwait in fact it we had in Al-Khaldiya a disastrous traffic jam if you were to see the people coming to take the Spelling encyclopedia, very respectful, very respectfully standing in a line that has extended to the street all the way to the roundabout, literally to the roundabout, to here in lines a line they’d enter and receive that, it tells you about the kind of people that are eager to get something beneficial for their children and you know all the children in s- at home they benefit from this you know not just one child or one grade it was for all elementary grades, the Creative Language Center.

That was the name The Creative Center?

Aa it wasn’t just here I mean.

Yes.

The Creative Language Center, aa we you know I myself am very very very proud to have approved this request because I was the head of the social committee at the time, so I approved and wholeheartedly said that this is a good project for the Arabic language now language is invading us non-Arabic language and language is dying I mean we’re almost losing our identity, so establishing this center is very important to children and to the Arabic language, we cared for children in hospitals and I think I talked about it so I’m not going to talk about it this is with regards to the children, as for women within the walls of the society one of the members has she’s into fitness and the healthy diets, so they wa passed by this headquarter or the you know small building two of the members one of whom is young afterwards I think she found another way for her, and she left and it’s now run by another member, aand aa she trains women on fitness this is also one thing we care for, aa in addition to the what we cultural things, or with regards to rights like I told you in the the society since its beginning we were concerned with awareness, but we went through years saying these are the political rights aa we have to include women and be you know become a part of society and the political life so we gave courses aa three months I don’t know if I talked about it, three months of courses aa training women, aa by a contribution aa very generous from a gro- the trainers were all volunteers, aa mm some of whom were former parliament members academics and rights activists you kno- know it was a very successful course huh.

Who were the participants in the course like the trainees?

The trainees or the ones who train?

No the trainees.

The trainees were aa of all backgrounds and some aa we- the you know announced their candidacy can you imagine aa one at least told me she’s thinking of running for election but I did not expect that when I run I have to have these qualifications or this the aa history, for instance you must have either you’re an author or have aa a business aa community service or be but her no she was just desiring to be ra- aa she was going to go she said she changed her mind so you know you feel that this was useful in addition to aa aa in these courses we distributed aa pamphlets to all the areas the the campaign headquarters at the time it was 2005, it wa- it has a kind of it was like aa a cardboard on the back and front it has a sh- aa it can be in a purse or your hand or in a pocket, how to be prepared for the elections, what to prepare how and who to vote for and how to vote? You know some useful information, what to take with you aa your civil ID helping a little hoping that the number increases they know the women you know in Kuwait they’re not iso-isolated from elections I mean we do vote the the university students in the union associations aa at the chamber of commerce women go to vote in ch- in non-profit societies they go to vote voting with the workers by the way there are women that go vote umm, aa at the workers’ union I mean this is voting but we said there must be people who are unaware of these so let’s be what’s it called, and we made at the same time a large media campaign, with the aa the aa UNDP, the UN organization and of course the ministry of planning is always a partner with them, aa a media campaign aa that says that v- we- it featured a woman’s face umm her mouth is taped shut so it says aa vote participate belong belong ha belong was very important, aa and b- and it was on all the time on MUPIs on the- on buses MUPIs in streets on buses and the TV ad a woman took off the the plaster on her mo- aa the her mouth mouth, umm and she said the line that was written in the posters ha, participate belong vote, this was aa very important and I’m going to stop here to point out something important to show you how if civil society had a very critical idea and they’re adamant that it’s good they’ll try to implement it, in this ad we were asked to put a woman in hijab, the society refused, [coughs] refused then, then then what? How do we put m- why put a woman in hijab? Aa of course we refused of course so one group said we’re not funding you then if she’s not in hijab we said fine it’s important, I mean we’ll look for a sponsor, no need, aa so we went it was myself and a colleague went to the people showing us the promo, at the office there we were surprised to find the group that insisted on hijab she said I’m on my way why are you here? I want to see the promo but you’re not sponsoring, so aa she said no no no, so when they saw that we were persistent that we’re going to go ahead ahead you know that’s it it’s out nothing’s left we’re here to watch the promo how can we stop just because we need to put a hij- so you might notice we at the society are always observe traditions safeguarding modesty safeguarding we’ve never done anything deviating from what were accustomed to I mean we never ask to violate a law a custom or traditions, always conservative, so the the woman that we chose was very, aa appearance aa aa and her appearance is there it’s normal her hair is draping down simply aa as if it’s a hijab, imagine that even her appearance looks like a hi- the hair like so is draping on her face from both sides on her shoulders like its hijab you know like it’s we see nothing wrong here, without makeup or anything, we carried on we insisted on going ahead despite almost dying of shock because the price was too high and where were we going to get it from, but we said it’ll work it’ll work, and it did by God’s will.

What was the purpose of her being in hijab?

Th they don’t want an ad-

They just wanted to impose th-

They don’t want one in hijab, that’s it, so aa the the aa the media campaign the second one, it was about the law is your light so a woman has to know her rights to brighten her life, her life would become easier I mean it doesn’t become complicated in front of her I have to go see a lawyer and its her right not- her side why would she see a lawyer just go demand it, in this campaign, we included women of all backgrounds, in hijab and niqab- not niqab, burq- burqa that burqa is ours, but niqab is not, and aa one who isn’t in hijab so aa I mean mm-

All backgrounds.

They were yes- young to old and young, aa so it worked out [laughs] n- no one objected.

What was this campaign Law is your light?

Your law is your light aa came because we were umm, aa we conducted a study comparing family law between Kuwait and Bahrain, we conducted it in cooperation with Freedom House organization, Freedom House aa aa we cooperated with them in aa aa the aa the training, and in this comparative study of the law between Bahrain and that we came out of it with a pamphlet, aa the comparison, so we organized workshops and such for people I mean women to know and even in Bahrain to know the difference between family law in Kuwait and Bahrain-

Like what were the points aa?

There are a lot of shared points, I mean our family law in Kuwait is very good, but just like yesterday we were with the world bank we were telling them Kuwait’s classification is really low, but because we’re not because we- it’s not implemented but they say no- for the the number to rise you know it has to be clear, we’re not saying we’re not traveling with a chaperone we travel freely, but it has to be mentioned without any restrictions for instance that’s what they mean, aa this is the difference in all the laws they showed us causing this low classification there is a lack of a word of assertion otherwise they met with us saying yes this is something we don’t do we’re s- I mean our laws are good it has laws- of course there are bad laws, and for that while we’re aware of bad laws we at the society worked on a project called aa aa the summary of my paper, but it was titled I mean aa Woman and Child aa the I’ll get you the abbreviation of what it means, but it’s the name of my paper aa it’s this aa project, aa was implemented in six Arab countries, it was a good success, and excellent, and we’re aa the seventh Arab country to implement it, or implement it implement it we’re the ones who implemented it we’re the ones who made it, the first gulf state, and we are very grateful because aa I mean we worked on it for two years aa so umm sponsored, by the Planning of course and the UNDP, aa the ministry of Planning and umm aa four female lawyers with a project manager and we worked a lot you know like gathering all the laws on the- o- on women and s- and and we divided it to four parts each part concerned with you know economy family law the the community law the fourth one I’ll tell you about it now, four and we made four parts of them, the other thing which is more important than aa than the division is that is that we aa on umm we tried to point out the weaknesses in this in all of the entirety of the project- the entirety of the law, aa what must be removed and what must be implemented, or a word to clarify like I told you about the world bank how their classification works, a word must be m m that to you know aa to be a positive point, this project was also aa aa put on a compact disk, CD, aa aa to be easy and accessible, for the people who use technology, and pamphlets with people who m- who read, this makes a lot of things easy for women, a lot, I mean she doesn’t have to get a lawyer she doesn’t have to be quiet she doesn’t have to be disappointed and frustrated no this is your right so it is easy for me to demand it, I know my rights so get to know your laws this came out alongside it after know your laws I mean your law is your light, so aa this things aa are very important for scholars women laws are ready in- for you know, ready for you because I remember aa I was invited at the Social Affairs ministry in a committee called umm t- what? Something related to rights, the first sit-down first meeting aa aa with us was the undersecretary the the legal department umm in the ministry, and all of them are legal practitioners you know lawyers and such and I was from the civil society, so we sat to the table and they said we’re this this this this we have a project like gathering all the laws and amending them and t- this and it was no no no like like like what we already did and finished, so I felt my chair flying to the top, so I told them we OK I became quiet honestly it was the first meeting I was quiet I didn’t want to be- I was waiting to see what next? Is it different? Then, in the second meeting they brought the laws and we began to r- read them and and comment and say and- of course the people in the meeting were all legal practitioners most of them, or like myself I mean there were some from the ministry from other departments from the ministry, so I said I’m sorry I mean I’m in the first meeting second meeting third meeting, the second meeting probably if not the third so I won’t be you know, I saw what the mm I why they were wasting our time we were coming here everyday to talk on the same thing? So I told them we at the society we did this this and this, and we’ve done all that, and all what you’ve been saying has already been done, and while in the meeting I called to get us seven I don’t know maybe eight aa files, from the studies and pamphlets and everything was ready, we put it in their hands- even when they had a meeting they continued themselves, aa a second meeting on the economic so I called I told them I can’t do this I don’t know about economy but I’ll call the aa the the lawyer I worked with on this part.

Who is the la?

Aa Mona Al- aa Asma Al-Ghanim, I told them I’ll invite her to the meeting and she’ll come and talk, not not ev- on this subject, so she came and talked, they resisted a little hoping to get out with something new but nothing new happened, so the committee was cancelled, they had enough-

It was the same content that a-

The same same same same, the same goal that they were aiming for we did it, this is som- I mean it is honestly a source of pride for Kuwait, what’s important is that in two thousand and fourteen the women declaration the- The Kuwait declaration Kuwait declaration ha, or the Kuwaiti women declaration in two thousand fourteen in the UN building our study was presented, and it ca- we seriously came up with he recommendations, so they distributed the recommendations on the groups in the workshops in the UN on the international women’s day in two thousand and fourteen the International Women’s day the Kuwait declaration, aa they distributed the thing so we brought up what the the the the aa the priorities to demand them, we came up with if I’m not mistaken twelve priority articles.

What were some of them? Or for example-

They’re available they’re registered by the way everything.

Do you remember for example focusing on certain laws?

Just- yes of course of course of course.

Aa were there in the community someone aa objecting to this things or or were you met with any difficulties on this?

No no no no nothing, in fact no one cares about you [laughs], something regarding women and doesn’t pay no one cares [laughs] no one is fighting over it, we came up with a recommendation and its from us so we imposed it we said the recommendation the pr- n- aa number one is shelters, so from this recommendation we worked as a society too aa we enlisted the help of lawyers- of course the lawyers are always paid I mean they’re not volunteering, but now aa Ghada Al-Ghanim took over my paper I was you know offered when Ghada wasn’t in the board of directors nor was she it was offered to me a while ago and we started to work then when Ghada Al-Ghanim came to the aa board of directors, aa I mean, I know that Ghada’s work is you know umm like they say serious aa, I mean and, she’s practical and and she does the work and finish it she doesn’t take it lightly and, she’s a great person in all honesty, aa she took over the issue, even after the manager that was paid by the planning and UNDP has left, aa Ghada took over and she became the project manager Ghada Al-Ghanim Ghada Yousif Al-Ghanim, Yousif Ibrahim Al-Ghanim-

And and-

We have to mention her name.

And the shelters these we- for abused women?

Yes, aa this was our recommendation we went back to the society, and we finished so we said what can we do? What are the priorities from these recommendations? It’s the the shelters-

There were no shelters for women in Kuwait?

Never and to day, to this day, I’m telling you a coincidence so we worked on the- you know aa the draft law to- establish you know-

Shelters.

Shelters yes, aa, we conducted a study, umm mm I mean umm, mm with the assistance of the aa The Center for the Advancement of Science, its them who you know they’re the sponsors, and aa it was real work to produce laws and a draft law how to establish and run projects- I mean shelters, anyways the project ended, and aa the Advancement of Science you know were very happy, and aa thank God on time, on schedule you know, and aa we finished, now the fo- I mean in in presenting the draft law we made a celebration here, who’s sitting? The undersecretary of the ministry of Social Affairs, he’s next to me he said to me Om Bader I can announce the- aa the shelters? I said yes OK on the contrary s- please go ahead I can’t say no, he said we the shelters by God’s will I don’t know m this we’ll open them he gave a date I’m absent-minded now I mean to be exact because there were a lot of events they were going to open them soon, fine we were really happy that the project we submitted, by the way yes OK it was a project OK? This we finished already, aa our colleague that was aa parliament member aa I mean aa, aa no the vice-president, the secretary-general of the society was Dr. Sohal Al-Felli before Ghada, she was with us on the board of directors, she was chosen because she’s a member in the aa what’s it called the family aa, aa oh my aa, oh my, aa the the one under the cabinet, aa [snaps her fingers] alright, it’ll come now, aa a member ha, so in their meetings, they were talking about the shelters and how they’re going to go about this project how to establish sh- no no no no no, she told them we at the society have this project, we have completed it in the society, there’s no need for you to do it, we’ll give it to you and we did.

And then?

The supreme council for family.

Mm, mm.

And we gave them the- the draft law, not a draft law sorry umm I don’t know what they call it a draft, an idea for a draft law or draft.

Where and and where has it reached in the?

They went to open the headquarters, a hoopla, can you imagine we opened the headquarters but the headquarters was an empty building with no furniture and even without any employees, and its still not operational and I keep repeating even the last time which was at the Social [laughs] Association I said this that we proposed the project by which I mean establishing aa shelters- it’s ready just awaits implementation, and we hope to be implemented and be operational, the building is available but it’s not operational and no one cares-

So to thi- to this day-

To this day.

It’s just a building then?

As a building, mm, alright, aa these projects which aa we you know are contributing to them even alongside the government, with the government I mean, aa of course if you come to the health aspect, we are the first society, the first and I say it with a million line under it, to start a campaign on the importance of or awareness aa for early detection of breast cancer, and I remember the committee was mixed it included young men, because it was indeed a big problem, and we were the first people to speak on Alzheimer’s, and we organized a conference with the college of medicine at un- at the university here in umm the college of medicine-

College of medicine.

With them we made it on the college stage and it was successful and we made a workshop workshop with aa she was a nurse she wasn’t even a doctor, but she has very successful methods so she became famous in America, a method where you’re now the patient with Alzheimer’s the Alzheimer's patient doesn’t have a problem, but the problem is with their family, how can you preserve the family and their health and to care for them so they could co- continue, and this was a very important subject, we made a workshop for two days with her aa you know after the conference aa at the evening is the workshop, teaching them how to care for you know-

For the family of the patient you mean.

Caring yes the the caretakers, the ones who care the patient, she was so successful and many people were eager to learn, we made other work- workshops in a later period- she left of course, then we brought her again on our expense here and she made aa w- I mean workshop here and we had great turnout you know aa, for her because we found out Alzheimer's is on the increase and even in the past but people didn’t know, and us through these work- workshops aa we wrote a book- a book that we printed twice can you imagine huh all these copies we distributed for free aa how can you help the caretaker of a patient to help himself help him to help yourself, how to deal with him, and how to care for your health, it was on the table anyone could walk in and take a copy for free, aaa this- I mean of course a free copy because we had a lot of sponsors for this issue so we printed it aa it was really good, but we are never hindered by finances or sponsors and we’d do it even if we paid from our pockets, remember those who tried to stop us insisting on a woman in hijab? We said we’d carry on, whatever happens happens we’d put a- even from our own pockets but we’ll move ahead, so work for us cannot stop because we believe in it and we believe that this will e- I mean it will make things aa it is of benefit, it’s not useless it’s not going on the the shelf so, this regarding the health aspect aa of course health is always aa conferences with nnn I mean nn forums around disease and whatnot we’re always on that whoever has a new idea regarding the aa treatments and such the society is always welcoming for these lectures.

You mentioned in the first session aa that you were interested or have always been interested in the Palestinian cause and had relationships with aa the Palestinians who were living aa-

Yes.

Near you, aa from the activities of the society what are the aa the thing relevant to this issue?

Alright let me just continue-

Yes.

Perhaps the the aa what’s it called the projects? Because the projects were a lot, so now I’m going to try to I mean it was definitely in the beginnings of the society it had aa you want me to tell you from the very beginnings or it doesn’t matter?

Aa whichever you like.

Aa I mean aa es- they founded villages village in Sudan one in Sudan aa a village in which they built a school and mosque and a bakery, and and farming, and they said this village you run it and you benefit from it and you- this idea this one, and you know the village, is still there, to this day and it’s working it’s called Hanan village and its purpose was that it was founded by by the society, the second one aa the second village was in Lebanon, during the war and such and they built a village for the orphans and such you know, but the wars in Lebanon and instability is now over but Hanan is still in Sudan aa standing, aa this is with regards to the aa what’s it called because I have to remember that- you know a lot aa of course we talked about the clubs in the psychiatric hospital and the fitness program ha, aa aa the demands for woman to become judges came from the society, demanding the right for women to become judges by the way came from the society we organized three conferences, the first conference the importance of women becoming judges in Kuwait because in r- there is a shortage alright, and and the the second conference we organized a conference a- a regional one to which we invited twenty two female judges from Arab countries and the gulf, it appeared that Kuwait is the only one without female judges, OK? And we took the recommendation and went to the aa public prosecutor aa and we met with him and he promised us that in two thousand twenty there will be women judges and they’re hinting at this now but to this day but you know thank God, we stood by the female prosecutors firmly as a society when it was established or first they announced in the papers that umm application is open for aa aa prosecutor positions, for what? For umm males only, of course the society immediately wrote a press release that unfortunately Kuwait have paid and f- wasted money teaching girls to be qualified prosecutors- prosecutors and now its males only, and and this was a bit cruel ha, and indeed es- it was met with a reaction I mean I remember the reaction and the calls we received and such.

A negative or positive one?

Aaaa-

Or both?

With embarrassment, with embarrassment but it’s good you stood up saying why males only? Why did Kuwait pay for their education then? Why waste efforts on them? Isn’t it so they would be prosecutors then become judges? Why stop half way? Then don’t waste money on them, don’t teach them, so we stood by them, and and w- until they really you know a few times and many incidents we stood by them until the first class graduated, we put up a big celebration for the first class, here at the society on the society’s stage, and on the second time they asked to stop the class to stop it aa I mean umm, stop what they stopped the course or the thing for-

The training?

That’s it, umm for the female prosecutors until- and they wrote it shamelessly, until they prove that they are performing well, and we made a hullabaloo, male prosecutors you do not test, you did not wait for him until you can take another class in, and we were in tou- touch with aa between us and the you know-

Officials?

The officials, with meetings insisting that this should not happen in Kuwait, and thank God it worked and now we’ve reached the first female judge to show you that the society is covering all these and deserved that women’s rights to to reach places like these, and we seek for her to reach decision making positions in better and stronger ways and with higher numbers, this is with regards to judges, as for the police.

Mm.

The first batch of police, aa they came out the police and talked about them so we talke- you know like what happened in this discussions in the the community about the police yes the police they don’t want police despite but when when and of course we are all targeted by known entities you know, the first batch we celebrated them a huge celebration with the press and such to tell the community ha or whoever is against them that there is a community backing this idea and backing women, umm I mean, this is almost almost aa except for the things what’s it called, umm.. I think we covered the biggest thing that aa are significant on the aa scene that is clear and are now felt at least thing that we still work on, work on the right of the woman married to a non-Kuwaiti [laughs] we did talk about it? No?

Aa we talked bri-

Yes, yes.

Briefly but would you like to add more to it?

Not really we c- but we’re carrying on, carrying on on on I mean all, I mean all year long you know, even I in spee- in my speech in the aa I pointed out that you could help in every field you could press this and talk about it, that’s all.

Aa culturally or technically?

Mm.

Are there activities you have not mentioned?

Umm there’s an important committee I have not mentioned which is the Zakat committee at the society, this zakat committee was established in the eighties even before the Zakat House, I swear, the one who established it are women, volunteers none of whom take even a bonus, and thank God I say it proudly that it is still active with the same women and except for the aa I mean they’re still the same kind of women I mean of course some grew old and other retired and some passed away but I mean aa the society- the committee still has aa a goal, and it is holding on to this goal and realizing it that a thousand family is- aa to support a thousand families a year, what branched off of this-

In Kuwait?

Yes, then aa Kuwaiti or non-Kuwaiti they don’t differentiate they don’t care- what’s important is that they’re Muslim because it is Zakat money only, but if a non-Muslim came and and he was in need they personally would help him, aa the other thing that branched off of this committee is the students, the students committee to help students in need inside Kuwait, umm, I think maybe umm, of course a- I talked about aa, aa the Hanan villages it’s old I’m a- aa I think I’m going backwards.

Yes.

We at the society had war efforts funding, during the war ha, in Palestine and Egypt we had members who visited Sinai and gave tangible assistance for them and we have the pictures I mean aa went to the border, and supporting the war efforts aa was aa maybe aa a story aa, Oum Kalthoum’s story with the society is quite popular.

Would you tell it to us please?

I can’t rem- I mean it wasn’t around my time, but umm I mean the ones before me and I mean they are much the I mean by God’s will maybe they enjoy long life and health. Aa they hosted Oum Kalthoum and organized concerts in Kuwait one was on Al-Andalus theater, and all of it went to the war efforts and a second time they hosted Faten Hamama, threw her a dinner a charity one and received a lot all of it to donate and contribute to the war efforts at the time and they collected aa the largest largest I think aamm I mean, the collection ohh aa, aa I mean how do I say it a charity concert aa-

Like a fund raiser?

Fund raising I didn’t want to say it in English [laughs], fund raising at the time because they had I remember even in the pictures aa a large amount of gold the ones who couldn’t give money donated their gold jewelry, so I mean I remember Nawar Mulla Hussain was one Najiba Sedairawi aa, aa what’s her name aa the one with a radio station now the one- of course s- Shaikha Al-Humaidhi Ghaneema Al-Marzouq aa I don’t want to mention names and forget others but there were a lot I could bring the book, but umm, Louloua Al-Qetami the daughters of Al-Saqer Louloua Al-Saqer I mean, they were member concerned with Arab nationalism and Arab and the con- the you know, contributions that, umm, mm, aa Najiba Al-Sedairawi I mentioned her may God rest her soul, and other of course but I can’t remember more umm, this was regarding the war efforts, this was a period if time that is unforgettable and remains they still play Oum Kalthoum in Kuwait, Oum Kalthoum in Kuwait wearing Thoub and holding a Tar or what’s it called [laughs] this is all the society’s, the society’s work I am amazed how God gave us the strength to walk the same line, praise be to Allah, aiming for the same goals with the same the I mean the the patriotic sense to serve none of us is hoping for a position or a reward or or even to be a member [laughs] at the national assembly, even though our work here qualifies you but we prioritize the interests of Kuwait and that’s it, and umm, I think I think, the society sponsored six hundred children from the Arab Children House in Jerusalem, this brings us to Palestine now.

Yes, OK… what were the activities on Palestine? Oh OK.

Aa a- the the look in Palestine like I told you earlier how far back is that?

Mm.

In history? With regards to the society’s work? When the first intifada erupted, and the stone children if you remember, and the uprising of the unarmed people, against the the tanks and air strikes and such, aah, aa the graduates society and a part of the aa member of our society, we were supporting the intifada, and we honestly worked I was one of them, my children were young, my two children Dalal and Saleh now he’s a doctor at GUST aa gulf university, aa they were between ten and twelve years of age something like that or younger- perhaps younger, aa Bader was older but Bader did not participate, but there’s a funny thing I have to say, and we participated I mean aa aa for aa fundraising in g- the graduates at the beginning of the intifada I think it was in the eighties or something, I don’t remember the date exactly we raised funds because at the time I mean of course Kuwaitis all of them, all of them were wealthy, we collected I mean you can’t imagine aa over eighty thousand in one day, aa yes I swear over eighty I’m not saying eighty it was over eighty, aaa, I mean fifty thousand came from one person may God rest his soul, fifty I wa- I was holding the cheque and they were saying is this five hundred or fifty thousands? They couldn’t believe it, so look at how Kuwaiti love to, aa we worked but I want to mention this maybe it’s rela- aa it relates or it doesn’t relate, aa my children aa there was Star Wars it was on at the ci- I read it and my heart ached more, Star Wars with- displayed in a bazaar I don’t know selling them, really, there were just news I don’t know what, they took the Star W- I told them oh that’s just silly I don’t know let’s take toys and you sell toys, Saleh and Dalal my children stood by the table, and they call your friends with you, they called their friends and sold the Stars Wars that belonged to Bader it wasn’t theirs, Bader to this day and until tomorrow says Mom I’m not going to forget them I can’t forget how angry I was, they sold the Star Wars I was collecting I said OK you collect them but there were people in need of the money it made, the people were buying Star Wars at the time, so this was my children’s first participation with me they were really young, aa of course the society aa umm I mean it became the aa you know the invasion for example, it was gone, this committee unfortunately, I mean of course it was the effects of the invasion mm on all it affected all aspects in all fields, aa after the liberation we got busy with the POWs committee and the society was, a member in the aa POWs and hostages committee that was formed by the civil society and we had a role in it.

Aa tell me about this a-

OK it’s very important, this one God bless you aa, I was personally in the committee, and we’d meet wondering what we’d do of course the situation was miserable ha, especially the ones who lost their breadwinners or the ones who and Kuwait, you’d be amazed that there are people in need I mean not everybody, their situation is fine, so us a society were helping them, aa Louloua Al-Ghanim Louloua Khalifa Al-Ghanim, in her rebuilding of her school for the disabled, Khalifa School if you remember we would on every Ramadan aa an open recreational day it was great ha, it was the society’s efforts with Louloua Al-Khalifa, and and her so- her society to care for the disabled were able to stand on its legs, aa when I was in the POWs committee and I was with her of course I was just there personally involved with the so- the members of the society I can’t say me only, so it won’t sound like it was only me, myself with the other members of the society, the POWs we wanted a fund raising event, col- for the families, so we thought you know we’ll talk to Louloua God bless her so she said like what we did for the Khalifa school we’ll do it for the POWs, but let’s ask for a school, so we requested a school in a street [snaps her fingers] aa Baghdad street, I don’t know what it’s called now and I don’t know what it was called then, and we did the same as we did for Khalifa school- the same games and the same what’s it called the same all the activities that we did there we did in this school for the purpose of collecting money, this is me this is my side, my daughter and I we we mm in the summer there were people who braid h- these small braids and the people crowded around her and so did the little girls, aa and my daughter loves you know loves art she love you know loves something like this of this type so she learned how to braid like them, so she said she wanted to do it now she was maybe twelve I don’t know or thirteen after the invasion, thirteen, she said so I told her OK if you want to do this aa teach your friends so they’d learn and you can make your corner to braid, she did braid and raised twenty five dinars I swear it was twenty five- of course you’re not going to take a dinar from children? Poor things by the time they were finished braiding, so this is something that made me happy, aa the fundraising succeeded for the POWs and hostages, in addition to the other activities that used to do, with the POWs and hostages committee at the time with a group from the civil society, this we had a role, now we return to the second intifada of Palestine, no one could be quiet honestly- it was wrong for a people to be slaughtered no matter what, we aa after the liberation of course our situation became very difficult, aa and it happened aa you know how the Palestinians Sudanese and Yemenis and others all entangled Arabs to divide and conquer, anyways we were divided, aa we refused to have the peoples be victims, so our answer aa we made aa a collaborative committee, aa the Cultural Women’s Society and the Kuwaiti Graduates Society, we made a combined committee so- we changed the name, aa we called it Kuwaitis for Al-Quds.

What was its name at first?

Aaa, the Popular Committee for the Intifada I think something like umm y- de- definitely the- it was written but- The Popular Committee for the Intifada, before the year ninety [laughs].

So it became Kuwaitis for Al-Quds?

Kuwaitis for Al-Quds for us now it was Al-Quds, if Al-Quds is gone there will be no Arabs anymore, where are the Muslims we want to- to m move the aa, those who you know, the ones aa at least the foreigners to see how and why aa- I mean we have to move, to protect Al-Quds and prevent the Judaization and with that goal we started to work, of course before going to Palestine because there were a lot let us sto- let me stop to talk about the Reconciliation committee, the committee aa the committee the aa the committee I don’t know the committee aa the popular I think the reconciliation with the people of Iraq, the committee, the reconciliation committee, the reconciliation committee aa with the people- anyways it was the reconciliation committee with the wha- who who founded it? It was founded by a group of seasoned politicians who knew what’s happening, they knew we are being di separated from Arabs, and Arabs have to- kill each other, it’s all policies that won’t work on us, so to us the Iraqi people are already suffering, they’re already suffering so how could we- I mean, continue with this plan to make us all suffer? So may God rest his soul Jassim Al-Qetami Ahmad Al-Khatib, ummm, aa Abdul-Aal na- yes look the group that was in the committee umm aa what’s it called human rights, aa Abdul-Latif, aa, mm, OK? I just can’t remember names- aa I remember but just a moment it’ll come to me.

Mm.

Umm, anyways a group of aa the important people asked for a stand with the people of Iraq because it’s not right.

In what year was that after the invasion? I mean approximately?

We have to look for it.

Ah.

It’s there all the dates if you want to put them ask me-

But it was in the nineties I mean?

Yes after the liberation! Immediately after the invasion, yes no it was after the liberation for sure, I swear I have just issued what’s it called anyways we worked, various committees, a media committee and what’s it called committee aa aa the committee for what? The communication one I don’t know what it’s called, the committee I was in, aa, l- anyways the committees were divided, aa, a relations committee, the public relations committee, I was the head of it you know aa aa, I’m thankful for the members present who were present a lot who were in the this but I don’t know how, they saw me with the POWs working with Louloua Al-G- they saw me working hard [laughs] they said this one works hard let’s put her, so in- and indeed we did something remarkable, the first thing we did was we organized an exhibition for Iraqi artists, aa we did it in the Society for Fo- Formative Arts.

Mm.

Who inaugurated it? May God rest his soul Jassim Al-Qe- Al-Kherafi, with the presence of the founders of the reconciliation committee, aa who were Dr. Ahmad Al-Khatib and Jassim Al-Qetami and other groups you can see clearly in the pictures I might remember more and tell you, I don’t know at the time there were no ambassadors, aa the opening was great mm-

Was it popular?

Mmm- yes, it sold a lot sold, the proceeds went to the artists because they needed it, you know? So aa umm aa-

But were there any sensitive reactions to the aa-

No one said anything, because officially Jassim Al-Kherafi inaugurated- inaugurated the exhibition, because people felt the conspiracy, they felt the conspiracy, the Iraqi people were slaughtered and made to tormented by Saddam, he came to Kuwait to destroy it too, he wanted to destroy these peoples, an exposed game, like now as they’re dividing the Syrian and Lebanese, the Qataris with the Sa- Bahrainis, us with the Palestinians with Iraqis that’s it, this is a policy, that’s not going to work on us, so it succeeded the how did we make the exhibition? One might ask how could they gather this is an important question umm, I have an Iraqi friend an art lover and she’s of a family you know cultural, and her brother-in-law was tortured in Saddam prisons you know, aa a famous doctor has aa a school in the aa, in the aa in the, architecture, and his house is built in that style that is taught at the American University in Beirut- aside from his house in Iraqi because he was tortured and, and afterward he left, and gave it to the American university, for them- to go and see the- the architecture, he’s an architect with his own school, aa, Refaat Al-Na- Al aa Al-Chadarchi his name is Dr. Refaat Al-Chadarchi, so I told Al-Na’ela we’re going to organize an exhibition she couldn’t believe me, you st- still love us? [laughs] I told her we love you we don’t love Saddam’s friends, anyways we secured twenty to twenty five I don’t know how many paintings, paintings and sculptures, sculptures huh, I told her look I’m going to buy them all, everything you’re sending I have not told her at first, she sent them because how is the money going to be transferred? So I bought them and told her what doesn’t sell I will market, I’ll buy it my house is beautiful and filled don’t worry, by God it was sold, aa a lot because they are famous artists and she she already she played a role- aa she kn- every artist and everything they’re- of this atmosphere I told you about her brother-in-law is like that and you know, people of the Al-Chadarchi family you know aa, it’s an honorable old and political family and, even aa anyways, umm so we organized the exhibition and it was opened and it succeeded, then aa there were other events I mean cultural aa forums and such but what I remember is what is relevant to my committee, aa then they started I think we started too in- there was the third committee for donations the the the what? Aa, what’s it called the donations committee, don- yes where people collect money and such for the affected families and such, this is an important part of civil activism we I mean we all worked for this committee, aa shall we go back to Palestine? [laughs] hopefully I won’t digress again every time we talk about Palestine we digress, Palestine w now we’ve reached after the committee we sat to think the intifada is happening the people are dying, aa Al-Quds is being violated we cannot accept this they were digging next to it, preventing people from praying, that’s wrong, so we aa restarted this committee.

Kuwaitis for Al-Quds?

Kuwaitis for Al-Quds and we began to work, from it aa, I mean lectures and financial aid, now to this day I talk about this, we have eleven development projects in Palestine, inside Palestine, because if there was a school about to shut down with fifteen thousand dinars we opened it, fifteen and the week two days ago I met the woman she’s not the principal who works at the administration she’s come for Awqaf here for a conference in Holiday Inn, and she’s ca- calling and calling telling me how are you here she said a- a conference we’ve been brought by the ministry of Awqaf, aa she says now aa you funded us we had fifty children now we have a hundred and seventy children, and thank God we were able to not close it and we’ve had a lot of donations Sweden by the way was helping and a lot of European countries helping inside Palestine, and she says you- because we did not close it and we stood firm with what you have sent us and we stood up, aa she says we now have a hundred and seventy children, and aa we work hard, aa but she says of course we are in need because after a while we go through these periods but we must have- anyways, this is one of the examples, there was a land that was going to be taken from a person in Abu Dees, Abu Dees is like a village very close to Jerusalem or I don’t know I’m not familiar with the map very well but it’s Palestinian land, a vast land with olives, aa aa not pa- he couldn’t pay for a lawyer so we paid for a lawyer us Kuwaitis for Al-Quds and he reclaimed the land, this is the land of olives, these are but a few examples, aa a car aa for instance that goes around giving eye tests for the people who can’t, a car huh, with the device of course, this car of course we made for, and we were able to buy the device, aa umm, mm aa a department in aa Al-Maqased hospital in a room in the center for aa cancer aa for example you know aa we don’t pay money we add to what is there, on the ground, he heard of us I was doing in the- Al-Seyasah newspaper, an interview, I was talking about the projects of Kuwaitis for Al-Quds and I was talking about the Asian university for girls in Bangladesh, Prince Talal has relations with Al-Seyasah newspaper he reads it, so he called us on the phone, and he talked to me aa I’m summarizing here you know ha, at the time I was opening the committee I mean I made them a promotion for the Asian university for girls in Kuwait and he told me now we’re not going to go to this for Palestine but he said I’m impressed by the Kuwaitis for Al-Quds and I’m impressed he called it the poor people university that is AUW of Bangladesh, no no no no aa he knows who I am definitely and knows my husband and so he was asking me and started to talk talk talk, and I want to cooperate with you as a committee to work on projects together, oh of course! I mean definitely, we gave him a visit, we went as a committee four of us from the committee of Kuwaitis for Al-Quds, and I asked for the founder of AUW to come with us to Riyadh to meet him, aa so it was a fruitful interview and we made three projects aa inside Palestine, and of course a- afterwards there was a second meeting myself and the founder of the university the one he called the poor people university, we met him and so and so but nothing happened because he has the Open Arab University although the standards are very different but you know, anyways afterwards he be- he fell ill you know, may God rest his soul he was an irreplaceable figure, anyways, Talal is the one who aa established also aa CAWTAR or Kawthar as they call it in Arabic it’s an abbreviation of women center for research, it was he who he was funding the center for women research in Tunisia, Tunisia or? Tunisia Tunisia yes, I think in Tunisia I’m not sure, anyways put a question mark I don’t know where exactly in aa Tunisia or Morocco I don’t know I don’t know what’s with my brain it’s become too alright aa this with regards to Palestine so we now I’m talking to you in twenty nineteen we have eleven projects, and a culture development project aa aa mm not an- I mean it’s not just funding no, we also support the students we have a students fund to support them and some have graduated already, and aa even aa the fund for students we have Palestinians in the refuge camps in Lebanon we pay the AUB it pays half of their tuition for honor students and we pay the other half, some people graduated so this is our work, umm we can aa I mean I keep forgetting them more than that, but like you know after the invasion and after the aa negligence in the charity organization, and funding terrorism and such, aa it was implemented against us so we can’t help can you imagine, we’re working on all these projects imagine if we have the freedom I think I don’t know what more would we have done more and more, this work for aa Palestine we still support the heritage center every year we open the society for them to do aa the those of the Palestinian heritage center is affiliated with the Palestinian women union where they sell most of their pro- products are made by women, breadwinners, and this all goes back to them of course benefitting them, the money goes to their families I mean, so this type of aa contributions aa, contributions for Palestine, aa of course in addition to that we went to them the first peoples’ delegation we visited when the aa what’s it called nineteen ninety nine when they chose Jerusalem to be the cultural capital, we were invited and the state of Kuwait was invited and invitation the secretary general of the National Council for Culture Arts and what’s it called aa Bader Al-Refa’I aa representing the government, and us we went representing the Committee of Kuwaitis aa oh my we were representing the what’s it called, and it was a terrifying experience in Palestine, we went to Ramallah and visited you know, sites, umm… then we’re still funding funding, we organized it in Kuwait because we we were originally aiming to in the committee to unite us all, this unity is important between the people of Palestine and Kuwait, and I was upset by this aa divide and being forced by these politicians to divide and they you can go die and the politicians are living wealth, we organized a celebration for the teachers fi- the first Palestinian teachers in Kuwait from forty ei- forty six or forty eight, the first batches, and we wrote a study about them it probably took around a year to gather them and one grandson of the teacher was present and he came to receive it we made a big celebration at the Sheraton, to celebrate them, we wrote a book, a big book I mean one of those that you put on aa on the table they call it a coffee table book, aa it has their pictures it was very high-end the printing was great the direction was great you read about every person and his life story and such, and now we want to continue with the following years, aa this is to celebrate the ones who served Kuwait, and we want this unity to come back, aa and our projects are continuing in fighting against the Judaization of Jerusalem, any project we can contribute to, so we’re contributing always to the youth like the aa the rehabilitation center for the aa addicts cancer of course too aa it might heal them, aa I told you about the eyes the ones w- aa it goes to house- houses, and aa you know projects they’re eleven.

Aa is there anything else you would like to add about the society activities, or anything else you’d like- you forgot to you know mention aa you’d like to mention before we end the interview?

I’m sure I forgot a lot but will there be a continuation, an appendix? [laughs] for the interview or not? No huh there’s not appendix, mm, I think I covered a lot I think, I don’t think I have anything else.

Anything aa personal you’d like to add?

Personally I am you know happy when I say that we- I am amazed I mean it’s an achievement thank God, and we still have the same energy and determination and spirit huh, not just myself but even my colleagues who keep coming to the society knowing what the society representing they don’t come to the society unless they know what the society is and what our goal are, so they’re contributing, and aa may God enable us I mean we’re hoping to do more and more and more, and we’re still you know we have project new projects like I told you we still have in in laws amending laws by the new year Ja- January aa h- aa aa workshop to amending laws and changing b- demanding its approval in the national assembly so they could become draft laws and vote on it, so our classification can jump-

The-

Kuwait to rise higher, it’s wrong that the classification when we say no we have yes we can talk but internationally they want one word to be added so it could be lifted and we were shocked by this, so we’re going to work on this issue to raise the ranking of the aa

Kuwait.

Like with regards to women in the classification of other countries, they are ahead of us by the way, but I don’t want that I’m proud of Kuwait and I don’t want to say we’re the same like the other gulf states or or that they are better than us at all, and it doesn’t shake me because I insist, the democratic state is the safest for the sustainability of a democratic state despite its faults, these faults will eventually t- but this one-man show, this is us who you know umm not, that’s not the goal we’re aiming for, it’s alright to be like this but we’re continuing to hold on to democracy in Kuwait because here we’ve held a lecture here years ago saying our constitution is our wall- our wall is our constitution, it protects us.

Aa thank you Mrs. Louloua and thank you for your time and for all the these events aa you recounted thank you.

Aa events I was [laughs] incapable of remembering a-