Interview with Faisal Al-Ayyar

Okay, today is the 17th aa of February and we are in Kuwait City aa and it is almost 12 aa p.m., and and with us is aa Mr. Faisal Al-Ayar, Mr. Faisal thank you for agreeing – It’s my pleasure. For the interview, aam can you tell us your full name and and the place and date of birth. Faisal Mohammad Mubarak Al-Ayyar, aa m, I was born on 20th of December 1954, was born in Al-Jahara, mm? Ehm. Al-Jahra city, aaaa. I had eight siblings, four brothers and for sisters this is our family, I am the oldest amongst my brothers and I have a sister that is older than me… You were born in Al-Jahra- Yes yes. Can aa you describe to me the house that you were born in? The house I was born in, aa was my grandfather’s, my grandfather was aa one of the important elderlies in Al-Jahra hm? Our house was big and you know the Arabic hosh is big aa big and the rooms surround the Arabic hosh, and we had a big diwaniya, the diwaniya was not only for the people in Aljahra but also for people who came from Saudi, they come they want to s s sleep and eat aa, I always saw them there, the house was very b big and there was my grandfather’s daughters… Mmm. the unmarried ones, and there was and there was and there was, he mashallah had four wives [laughs]

[Al-Ali laughs]

Two wives in this house and and and and and and one in the third house aa, aa the second, aaa, I studied in what was it called be- now we call it preschool, before they used to call it Al-Bustan (a garden or a wide open area of land)/ in Al- Jahra, and from the stories the aa from the stories that that I remember they had aa umm Al-Hisn (carousel) that turns the one you hold on to, so I held onto it my leg got caught in the iron bar so, my leg broke h ha?

How old were you then?

Ohh I was little, little aa maybe five or six years old, after I broke my legs, they removed that from the the preschools and that from or the aa what is it called from the aa, from all the schools in Kuwait-

[Al-Ali laughs].

Because you know they were afraid in the aa-

From this incident.

Yeah really, this incident I remember since I was young, we moved from from, from Al-Jahra in the sixties.

Aa before I aa continue aa I want to get back to aa Al-Jahra, aa if you can tell me about the neighborhood that you lived in, how how was it?

Yeah, eh yeah the the the families there, the farms in Jahra, I remember the pretty, this beautiful farm my grandfather had a beautiful aa farm there aaaa, and it (Al-Jahra) was small back then, only a few families were there and we all knew each other, until we grew up everyone knew each other aa-

Do you remember what families, who the families were?

A lot of families a lot there was, Al-Khalaf and Al-Ameer ha? Hatanfel the the the the aa aa and a lot of families but what, all of them are no no more than fifty families not even forty families. It had two streets I remember Al- Jahra aa the Souq street and the other street and the houses around it.

Can you describe them to me?

We were the generation of, generation of- we caught up with the mud houses I mean aa the houses made of mud were there, so we saw the modern and we saw the aa old-

yeah, aa and was the farm close to your house or for instance-?

not far away, it was a walking walking distance at that time.

And how was it, what was in the farm, can you describe it to me.

There were palmtrees, and they planted lucerne for goats, for instance some planted aa vegetables aa aa like aa primitive.

And there aa like was a connection between you and nature, y you like grew vegetables or took care of the animals?

No not rally, aa we were little at that time, we went to hunt birds or [laughs] went to do this but we did not- we went camping how fun was that? We would go camping with the guys. We made tea with milk and I don’t know what, eat biscuits with him and then go back home. [Al-Ali laughs]

[Al-Ayar laughs]

Aa do you remember a funny story that happened to you in the farm or when camping or like something does not have to be scary or something a, that happened to you?

M aa yeah no like the – the life was beautiful and then there were cousins, and they were all in the neighborhood, so we had a big… [laughs] our fun was in these gatherings and the-

And and did you go out more with your aa friends or more with you’re the the family or-

No no most of the time with the with the ha aa what do you call it, friends.

And and you were at the age you said the age of a kindergartener five years to-

We were six years old almost six, seven yeah.

Aa so you first memories were in Al in Al-Jahra-

Yes yes

We can say, aam and when did you move from Al-Jahra?

Sixty, sixty-one in 1961-

Sixty-one before we move on from this point mm do you have another memory about Al-Jahra like did you notice any difference aa from before and now in terms of the weather in terms of the aa buildings?

Not really the difference is the the greetings before when I go to Al-Jahra we asked how you are and how is – everyone knew each other, now it is different.

Aa was the, can you say like there was a strong relationship between neighbors?

Ohhh it was strong strong everyone knew aa knew each other and everyone would stand with each other in times of hardships and the can see how they strongly stood with each other.

And did you celebrate certain occasions?

Kuwait’s events like Eid, al-Jahra was easy when Eid came, when Eid came the Ardah (a folkloric group dance in the Arabian Gulf) started and other stuff happened, and you would see the women on one side and the men on the other side-I mean it was aaa aa aa a big event in the time of Eid-

Can you describe the first Eid you remember as a kid?

Not really, I don’t remember the first Eid

You don’t remember? [She laughs]

[Al-Ayyar laughs] but I remember Eid’s as a whole-

Aa but if you like aa celebrated Eid in Al-Jahra like wh-what were the ritual for celebrating Eid for example?

Look the men would do the Ardah and the women would watch and everything and that, and then they would bring you rides? they would put it- and and rent it for the aa kids, aa all kind of stiff would be there. But it was all modest.

Can you describe me the Ardah for those who are listening to aa the recording, how was it?

They danced the Ardah with swords and then they would bend, and one would respond to other ok aaaa and with strong big words and ha I don’t remember don’t tell me [he laughs]- [Al-Ali laughs]-

That that was and event that day for men and women.

And and were the men and women separated-?

Yes separated, the women would be only on the side watching so, when their son comes and dance Infront of them the mother would … [he laughs]-

[Al-Ali laughs]

The rest of the and that.

Aa okay you mentioned some of the toys they brought-

Yes.

Aa what kind of rides?

For example, the toys the the aa what is it called the one that turns around? I forgot its name, the one you sit in.

Swing or what?

No not the swing the aaa-

Carousel?

A carousel but the old one, made of wood, wood you know.

[Al-Ali laughs] yes.

And then there was the that they push h like aa ah and and and like it was all simple nothing too much, and they would rent and rent bicycles and rent motorbikes for anyone that wants to drive otherwise you would find them on the side renting.

And and and you said in 1960 or 61 you moved from Al-Jahra to?

We moved and we stayed for a short while in Umm Seddah in Mirqab m ha? But we did not stay there for long, we were building a house in Khaldiya at that time.

And and how was the I mean the situation in Al-Mirqab, you were, you lived-?

Umm Seddah? Aa did you feel a difference as a kid or as a family aa moving from like Al-Jahra and its farms to to the city?

Of course of- of course there was a difference, and the other things our family was there more, but thank God the adjustment was easy in Kuwait back then.

And and you moved from aa Al-Mirqab to Umm Seddah then to Khaldiya-

Yea Khaldiya.

Was the Khaldiya like still new in the sixties?

Yes, it was just now, there were no streets yet and it was all sand and next to and and and we built a house there and we lived in it from that time till today.

Aa mashallah- And and and and you were aa about let’s say like eight years old or-

Yes.

Aa and and mm in Khaldiya aa aa you went to school there?

Yes, because we used to study in Al-Faiha before schools in Khaldiya opened and then they moved us to Khaldiya when they op-opened schools there.

Your primary education was in in Al-Faiha?

Yes, in Faiha, and we would go to our school there every year in Khaldiya from the start of middle school, second year in middle school and then thir- we went gradually until we finished them all-

From the start-

Yeah yeah.

Do you remember the school’s name in Al-Faiha?

Aa I don’t Al-Faiha I think Al- Faiha primary school yeah.

And and aa how was school?

Aa it was big and traditional and and ohh, the advantage in it that there is a lot of people with me in school in one of my classes in first primary year – aa second primary year and what? I know I still remember their names- I don’t know why th- these stuck in my head- I mean there are people from middle school that I don’t remember-

[Al-Ali laughs]

What? Mm-

Like who were they-

No, I mean aa they are old friends one may God rests his soul he was aaa, his name was Abdul-Latif aaah and there was Faisal Al-Armaly, a friend of mine and and Abdul-Latif the aa, I forgot his name anyhow he is dead may he rests in peace he was in the army with us mm.

Aa okay aa in primary school do you by any chance remember how the education was how was aa the nature of teaching in primary school?

Of course I do, I was excellent, we were- I mean I was either the first or the second on my class, good, or no? so so so aa it was – a great experience for me, aa-

And what wa- was for example your favorite subject as a kid in primary school?

I was susceptible to to to math originally, I was a quick learner I would memorize quickly- when they put when he puts aaa what is it called, aaa when he wants us to solve something, I would solve it and I would solve the next one, this is what I remember aa- At that time.

Aa do you remember for example your teacher where were they from?

aa- probably from Palestine.

Was there a specific teacher who influenced you either in math or any other subject?

I really don’t remember- in primary school I don’t remember- and in middle in high school there was Kuwaiti teachers and that started-

Aa and in primary school for example did you have any extra curriculars outside school?

The the the the there were activities there were physical activities at its peak that time you know aaa, aa but then you know after we grew up a bit when we were in middle school you could sign up for radio or theatre or anything there were a lot of activities-

This was in middle school?

Yes, middle school.

Aa but aa if it is okay to stick to elementary school for now-

Yeah.

Aa because it is a beautiful foundational phase amm for example what do you remember from school you were- were doing some extracurricular activities outside the class, were there for example any activities that helped with the development of children like music or?

There was there was music lessons but nothing serious in the the, aa aa there was aaa but not aa what is it called – they would pick few students and they would sing the national anthem or something of that kind, but I don’t remember the activities in elementary school except sport-

But was there anyone for example against aa teaching music?

No, at that time no no.

There was you mean-

No, not at all no no-

Can we say they were more open?

No, at that time they would walk in on us with Jamal Abdul-Naser speech [he laughs] they would walk in on us telling us to go out and protest they would get us out of school [he laughs].

This was in elementary school?

Yeah, yes, they would come to schools-

Do you remember-?

Middle school and high school aa-

Do you remember a specific incident that happened?

I remember I remember this, they walked in on us, older people would walk in, and they would say get out get out get out what? Protest and I don’t know why? Abdul-Naser just made a speech about Palestine or on another subject.

And and and what did you do, did you protest?

Off course it was a chance [he laughs]

[Al-Ali laughs] aa-

Yes, a chance.

Yes, aa do you have other memories from from elementary school days?

No, I mean ah, in elementary schools to tell you I remember the protests otherwise it was aa calm and beautiful.

Okay your life in the house you mentioned you were the oldest in the the aa-

Brothers.

The boys? And and and the and the girls there was a girl-

There was one older than me

How was your relationship with your brothers and sisters?

[He clears his throat]

Like were you responsible for them or were you-?

Yes, yes yes

The favorite son?

Yea I was responsible because because my father was a politician back then, aaah he was what is it called a member in the national assembly, at that time, and and and and and and and and my mother was hardworking and everything, but you know in that simple time, I had a role in I was responsible and I feel, and there were times were I would lose it a bit [he laughs]-

[Al-Ali laughs]

Good, or not? Responsible being tough and tough and that kind of stuff.

Aa so when you were in primary school your father was in aa-

Member in national assembly.

Member in national assembly aa in the start of this for example what did you hear as a kid about aa political situation or the start of national assembly-?

This made me start reading, you know my father would come, and he would bring newspapers and I would read them, aaa, my father was sixty three years old aa in the national assembly.

In the year 63 aa okay aa since you mentioned reading what did you like to read other than the newspapers or for example subjects like aa –

No, I read the titles in the newspaper- and if something pulled me, I would get deep into it, but I learned from a house aaa from a house aa- people that were close to my family and and and and and and Subhan Allah (Glory be to Allah) my wife was from that house [he laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs].

Good, or not? And they had specific rituals, and in what, they would let them go buy books from the bookstore, books, they would read, and they would have to sleep at noon or- they would have mmm, things that aspired me to read books, aa we would go buy from them and that.

Aa okay yeas- aa what was the bookstore that you bought from?

I don’t remember, we would go to Hawally- I remember the book, maybe the first book that I bought a book called Ba’eeat Alkhubz (The Bread Seller).

[Al-Ali laughs].

Haa [he laughs] good? And and and a book called Le Misérables, and I don’t know what else, a book, they were good books, and we would read them till we finish them, this was from my aunt’s house house, it was aa-

Very nice, and your rituals you would buy for example the book and then you would go-?

Read it and we would exchange books; I would give him my book and he would give me his book after he finishes.

And and where was their house, your aunt’s house?

Their house was in Al-Qadisiya.

In Al-Qadisiya so it was close to Hawally, did you go?

Hawally, yes, we would, that’s why we would go yes.

Aa aa who, can you describe that aa that-

House?

The house and and m- aa how did you go to the bookstore aa-?

By car the yes aaa we would go buy and come back to, the aaa the house, a house, where there are poets and some of them have become and some of them yeah.

Aa and did you spend most of your time with them?

I would spend a lot of time with them because one of them was close to my age, we became friends.

And and is there like someone from your sisters or brothers who liked to read like you?

To be honest I don’t know I mean off course, but you know at that time aa the women read aa what is it called aa the one for about and about the [he laughs]-

[Al-Ali laughs] yeah yes, aam okay this was in primary school aa you mention in middle school you were in Al-Khaldiya-

Yes.

And did the nature of education change for you from elementary school?

At that stage in Al-Khaldiya I have experienced everything, you know? Like, I signed up for radio and theatre, math you know? Even in boyscouts [he laughs], I signed up for scouts, so you know I had the desire to learn new thing.

Aa that stage was really fulfilling-

Plentiful plentiful-

So I want to slow down, you told me participated in radio activity what was it like in middle school?

We would read, they would give us material to read because it would be for the class, I mean for the students in the morning assembly and then we read it, or we would do it in recess when the recess starts.

Aa you mean like in the beginning of the day in the in-morning assembly you were-?

Yes, yes morning assembly we would talk about a short specific topic or something and you talk about it.

Can you talk to me about the morning assembly like m how did you go, what was the-?

They would line up in a line like the one where the lineup and sing the national assembly and I don’t know what or they would say long live Kuwait, long live Kuwait, long live Kuwait and then they would tell them to go to their classes.

And was there any specific topics that you focused on at that time?

To be honest I don’t remember.

Topics like Arabism or-?

General topics or when the school wants to announce something to the students or mm.

And and was there like a rehearsal for the school radio or-?

No, it came naturally.

Only one would know-aa?

Yes, we would stutter a bit and then [he laughs]. [Al-Ali laughs] okay and you mentioned that you were interested in theatre?

Yes I acted in a play yeah yeah.

What was it?

A play about about Palestine and this and that time you know the culture and all? And played a martyr one of the mart- the one that died [he laughs].

And this was in middle school?

Middle school yes.

Aa like can you remember what was aa your parents’ reaction that you liked acting and broadcasting and what was aa-?

Something aa aa my father at the event [he laughs] and he saw it, but he could not see me that well [he laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs] and was there encouragement from your parents for this, the-?

Yea, my parents were not against these things, I did it with aa my parent’s approval.

And and the the teachers who encouraged these literary talents, acting and broadcasting, where were they from?

They mostly aaa from Palestine and from- I think- no, I don’t remember actually but you know like this.

And and do you remember any of the teachers aa do you have a story with them or, or someone who influenced you in aa? In, no, it was an experiment- like an important thing in the boyscouts, aaa, I represented Kuwait in 1968, in aaa aah me and a group of? Aaa in aam Arabic Scout Jamboree in Algeria. And we went there and and I, we performed well there aa, so, I came back, and I was- I had a role in the scout aa, special a bit commanding-

This was the start of the scouts; it was in Kuwait aa-?

No no the scout was there before us aa-

Aa what did you do for example in the boyscouts aam? What did they teach you for example?

They teach you discipline in the scout; they teach you aa teach you how to live with your nature, teach you how like like- cook for ourselves and eat and wash and then we would sing Nasheed [chants] they teach you how to tie knots- it had a lot of features.

Aa and what did they teach you to cook?

No. no you would come with your own knowledge [he laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs] okay.

They don’t teach you.

Aa since you mentioned this part aa as a child what was your favorite food or like candies and sweets in Kuwait in the sixties? That time? Yea, we caught up with the bad and good good or no? like there was a time we ate locust? [He laughs] good? And that was a delicacy you know? And and and we were like, I am talking about the sixties, in the sixties the fruits and that, aaa what to do they say? If it was alo, a lot, aa we would fight over it-

[Al-Ali laughs].

Y- yes yes, we had limited choices, but, pasta, was one of the things I loved. Every other day we had pasta [he laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs] aa okay, you mentioned locust, how would you eat locust or-?

They would bring it in a bag, and boil the water, and put, put it in the hot water then some would fly out. Then they take it out, remove the wings and remove ha, then eat their stomach.

And this was like something special-?

Ohh, we would not know how to stop, we would not stop back then, you at that time [he laughs].

Aa okay, and did you have any imported sweets from abroad or was there aa someone who made sweets in Kuwait?

Look, there was something famous from a long time ago? Knafeh- They made Knafeh in Fahad Al-Salem Street, what was it called, I don’t aa remember really. Al-Baqsami?

No no no no no no no no Jordanian Jordanian. I remember, I will tell you now. Aaa we would g- if we got money in Eid we would go and eat there.

Aa really nice, you mentioned Eid, m aa was there a difference between Eid in Al-Jahra when you came to Khaldiya, how did you celebrate Eid and since you were older-?

Yes yes-

So, you can reme-

No, yeah yeah and there were more activities, like you go to the streets and see the street the Fourth Ring street the one towards Jabriyah, Jabriyah was full of amusement parks, a big one- aa we would go and sit and play all day long there, and like oh ooh oooh, what is it called, these were one of the things, the one with a head like this and a table under it [he laughs] alright? and it would move and you wouldn’t see the legs and-

[Al-Ali laughs].

You know like this, I remember these things [he laughs], and the one you put here and it would shock you, you would put it on the hand, and you would get shocked, and light would come out of it, you know these things but there were more activities.

And you celebrated with the family in the beginning and then-?

Eid, in Eid in the beginning you must greet each other and go visit our families to gather money-

Yeah [she laughs].

You know how it goes ha? [He laughs].

Do you remember a story that happened to you during Eid, with aa with your family, like while you were greeting someone, like something funny or embarrassing or [she laughs].

[Al-Ayyar laughs] oh, well in Eid!!

Or something you liked and waited for in Eid?

We like, whenever we finished from the family gathering, from the gathering, we needed it to gather money, but then we would want to leave.

And whom did you go out with with-?

Sometimes I would go out with my family, like my brothers and sisters or somethings, if I wanted to go somewhere and other times I would go with my friends.

And other than the games on the fourth ring street, you were-?

Back then at our age these games were the essential- Yeah, yea back that that was our fun.

And and in the sixties, since your father was in politics, how was the political atmosphere in Kuwait? Aa from your perspective as a child-

You mean as a little kid yeah?

At that time?

In the- aa in it was everything, it was there and the tensity was there and everything, but there was line of respect and line of values and a line if that, the one that does not exist now.

Mm mm, and and for example did you feel any social difference between people as a child, like did you have aa have friends from all the aa the different social backgrounds.

Yes, I had.

So, you know like in middle school you did didn’t feel anything of the kind?

No, no I di-aa didn’t didn’t feel like I was living better than others or, but but I didn’t feel like I was a superior or them or you know- Or you didn’t feel like aa you were not allowed to befriend some people like-?

No not a chance, we did not have this in Kuwait.

And and aa do you remember your friends from middle school, like what did you use to do in school during a break time?

Like something, what did we do in school aa not in school, in school back then- we would go jump aa jump over the wall and go to a restaurant near by-

[Al-Ali laughs].

We would buy a sandwich with fries and eggplants [he laughs] or I don’t know what, a sandwich and come back and this was the highlight of an adventure [he laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs] aa okay, did you feel any different from when you were in Al-Jahra, you mentioned that you used to hunt birds. So, you had, had a connection with the surrounding environment, how was it in Khaldiya from that perspective?

Aa I was a scout, and I would go camping and go to, you know? Secondly, we as parents we had places to go to and the…

Aa what camps did you go to in the scout? There was a camp in Al-Fintas there was an annual scouting camp, and we would stay there for 15 days-

Only the students, without the parents?

No, only the scouts. And they do this annually ha? And and – and and and was scho, every school and their scout had programs on Thursday, like they would go to Abu-Halifa, Thursday and I don’t know where and and and there were programs based on the te, these were the Kuwait areas, aa Abu-Halifa and Al-Fintas and others.

And how did the aa areas look back in the sixties, were they like, were they built up?

No no no no no, there were old families there, but it was empty.

And what did you do as scouts there?

We would camp, okay, and we would sit and t-t- aaa get tanned together, and whomever has something funny to say or something we would talk and cook and eat and and-

What was your role aa, you mentioned earlier that you had a leading role in in the scout, what were the things that you-?

I once through the years, if I am not wrong probably in 1968, I was young at that time, or in 1969 yeah, I was in charge of 11 schools, I would wake up in the morning aa I would see if they woke up or didn’t-

[Al-Ali laughs].

I would give them I would give them what is it called-

Grades?

Yes, grades I would give them grades because aa they would take who came in first scout and they would greet me [he laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs] aa do you remember a story that happened to you with them or like was someone aa aa troublemaker-

No no no no there was none, and and and I would talk about, like, aa we were not old but you kind of born with leadership skills and the, mm.

Aa so we could say that scout had an important role in schools aa-

No doubt, no doubt.

Is it different from nowadays? No doubt, no doubt, outside the house, and outside, aa and yes a place with rules and with aa. Why would three greet you I mean? Ha? M aa mashallah first the country and the aa then, the youngsters respect the elders and they had compassion towards the youngest [he laughs].

Nice and and this was-

Had its meaning and?

And this was taught in the scout-?

Yeah, yes yes yes.

Aa very nice aam okay, in middle school aa how many sisters and brothers did you have at that time?

Aah fewer aa fewer aah, look, there a girl, my sister, my mother was pregnant with her when I was a senior in high school-

Ah.

So, of course in in middle school, she was not born yet and also a boy, we were three to three.

Aa okay, how was your relationship with them, did you play together more or-?

At that time, you kind of had, you know the girls did not go out a lot, or else we would stay at home for a long time, the second thing is travel, and summer vacation was three months. So, we were in each other faces even when we were traveling [he laughs]-

[Al-Ali laughs].

I don’t know, there was there was the-

Communication.

Comm communication but that does not mean it was all communication am aa not everything was sweet there was fighting-

Of course.

And sometimes [he laughs].

Aa since you mentioned traveling in summer, where did you travel to? Lebanon. From the late fifties till the civil war, we would go to Lebanon every year for two to three months.

Where in Lebanon?

In Hammana.

Hammana.

We had a house there.

Can you describe your trip or aa-?

We would go by a car. We went by car through Baghdad and then through- then we would enter Jordan and then Syria until we reach Lebanon.

How was the trip? Did you prefer-?

It was not easy it was difficult and yeah dangerous, dangerous in in the- I , last time I drove them to Lebanon- Ah [he laughs]. Yeah, I was a senior in high school at that time.

Aaa okay what do you remember like aa when- you passed through Baghdad, what do you remember of Baghdad?

I don’t remember anything we only passed by through it-

So, you did not visit any-

We did not stay; we would only eat and then leave.

And and and in Lebanon- were there any Kuwaitis there in your area?

Ooh aa these area like Hammana, there were mostly Kuwaitis there, my grandfather had a house there aa my father’s uncle had a house there and I don’t know who else, our family all of them had houses.

Aa how were the houses there?

Our house was big, it had three floors and it had a beautiful garden filled with cherries and apples.

What did you do there in summer? What were your activities during those three months?

The usual [he laughs]. My dad would come and give us choices, look in the mornings we would joke around and laugh, at noon or afternoon we would go and see a movie, after the movie, we go for a walk in Hammana, when we were older, we would walk in Bhamdoun [he laughs] and when we were a bit older, we would go to Beirut aa.

What movies did you watch in-?

Everything, in Lebanon they played everything. Did you like aa cinema and movies?

Ohh, I was obsessed with cinema, until this day.

Aa what kind of movies did you like?

Aa everything really, as guys we like action movies. Right? But at the time we were there they showed a movie called Love Story- Ohh woooow the hype [he laughs] but what I mean that we would have f- that was a part of our daily life, we go to the cinema and then take a walk.

And and did you go to the cinema in Kuwait?

We would go bu no, I mean I would go, I would go.

What, what cinema did you go to?

We tried them all, we tried the one in Al-Andalus and Hawally- The one in Al-Hamrra, and the one in Firdous but I did not go there a lot because it played Indian movies [he laughs].

[Al-Ali Laughs] okay, can you describe to me aa the cinema in Hawally or what you watched there for example?

I don’t really, I went there on, few times only but, but what? It was open above us, there was no, and then and then it was old, aah but, and mostly they showed Arabic movies or movies. And who did you go to the cinema with for example or-?

Most of the time I went with my friends.

Mm, in Kuwait? Aam okay, this was in middle school but before we move to high school, I feel like that phase was very rich-

[Al-Ayyar Laughs].

Aa did you have other activities than going to the cinema or the bookstore in middle school, were there any places that you went to in Kuwait other than the usual places.

At that time-

Like in Salmiya or-?

Mm yeah aa, we would go aa, we would go to Ahmadi Park, you would pass by it, on Friday Al-Ahmadi was crowded. Aaah.

What did you do in Ahmadi?

Nothing, people would go hang out.

You mean on picnics?

Not picnics, I did not go on a picnics, we would drive around and stuff.

Were there any specific restaurants that you liked going to?

Back then, -

Mm, in the sixties?

Look what I remember aaah, what was it called what was it called what was it called, there was a restaurant that opened in aaa Fahad Al-Salem, the first to make hamburgers, oooh they made a rounded meat-

[Al-Ali Laughs].

[He laughs], it was a big thing going to order there.

Do you remember the name of the aa-

Yes, I remember, I remember it, now I am old I forget things aah, har restaurant- aa I seek the forgiveness of Allah.

That was in the sixties?

In the sixties yeah, late sixties, now aa-

Did you go with your friends and-

Yeah yes yes.

[Al-Ali laughs].

Hamburger! Hamburger!

[Al-Ali laughs] aa were there any other restaurants aa-

Yes, yes the one I told you about the aah, the one we ate knafeh at, aaa it was famous. No, it is famous in Jordan, they opened the same one, aah.

And and aa you told me back then there was a lot of support for the for sports and the and the and activities-

Yeah, ah sorry sorry at that time I was signed up in Kazma and and and yeah yes yes.

This was after school?

Yes, after of school.

What was your position in the football team?

In football, I was a goalkeeper- Ha? Yes yes at that time, and and what was it called, and I played everything, I played volleyball, basketball and played everything.

Aa what was your favorite sport, from the ones you mentioned?

As an observer aa I watched football.

Football, did you have matches with other teams or schools or-?

No, no while I was in Kazma team we played against other teams-

Ah, okay.

We were called lions back then.

And and wh what was aa the situation with the aa sports clubs, did you feel any difference regarding support and attention aa in aa from nowadays?

Aa nowadays, I don’t know, I don’t, but that time there was interest.

Aa did you play in a league, how was the-?

No no not in a league, mm only friendly matches.

Aa and were you like good at playing, do you remember or [she laughs]?

Okay [he laughs] you could say that.

And did you like to play-

Yes.

Matches, aa was there like trophies or aam contests or?

No, I don’t remember.

But it was only friendly matches?

Yes, we would play, we had fun playing.

And and what was aa your parents’ opinion about about sports as after school activities?

No, on the contrary they would encourage us as long as we weren’t late. There was discipline in this regard, aa okay this was during aa middle school, were you in Al-Khaldiya during high school or?

Yes, in Al-Khaldiya.

Aa Khaldiya high school?

Yes, Khaldiya high school. No, sorry I meant Kaifan.

Kaifan ah ah.

Yes, there was there wasn’t a high school in Al-Khaldiya.

And and in Kaifan high school aa was it different from Al-Khaldiya, for example did you meet new people-?

Yes.

From different areas?

No no, Kaifan high school would gather all the surrounding areas. So, the social circle extended mm.

Aa so it was different from from from the from middle school?

Yes, different different.

Aa and since in high school-

And then when you see the seniors in high school, they seemed old and we were young, we just came to the school.

Aa how was the the aa dynamics in in high school?

What can I tell you [he laughs] dynamics! We were together from middle school, and little by little we adjusted to high school.

Did you develop different character traits in high school, did your interests differ from middle school, let’s say?

Ooh yeah one hundred percent.

What were your interests in high school?

Aahh, that time we were getting older a bit- bad habits started like cigarettes- Right, or no?

Mm mm, aa okay in aa at that stage I can ask if aa what were the things that- that you were interested in outside high school, for example any activities, did you continue with sport or like-?

Yes we play league sports-

And what about the scouts?

W w we always played sports we did not we did not stop, we played through all of high school the aaa what is it called, outside of high school, and then the second thing aa aaa as I told you, now we wanted to learn how to drive [he laughs] all of this we were growing up.

Did you have any disagreements with your family throughout high school or were you aa-

The “rebel” phase-

[Al-Ali laughs] yes.

[Al-Ayar laughs] right? but thank god it wasn’t that bad, but I was at the age of- aa in aa, in junior high school se- junior or a senior high school, I think, I had a serious accident- a car accident.

Aam you aa at that time you were driving a car when you were a junior?

Yes, yes yes yes yes a senior yeah-

Senior in high school, the allowed, the age was the same as it is now adays, 18 years old?

Yes yes.

And and-

Can you see here, this is where I got my cut on my eye, from here, see, aa and and and and this arm got broken, it was broken badly, so, aa-

What what happened, if you could tell me, you were-?

I remember, as I was approaching the traffic light, and then at that time the car in front of me was able to turn north-

And this was where?

But he has to look before turning, the, the traffic light between Kaifan and Shamiyah you know? You know Al-Faiha? Yes, so as I was coming, I saw a green light, so I sped up a little bit, and he just turned right in front of me, so I crashed into his car, so it was a big accident, I stayed at the hospital for a while, a rumor went around that I died and that that [he laughs] I couldn’t walk and thank God.

Aa what was the car that-?

Toyota.

Toyota ah-

Yes, that was my first car.

Mm, do you remember it?

Yes, yes, I remember it.

What color was it?

Green aa kind of olive like.

Did you name your car?

Not really, at that time I have had enough of it [he laughs].

[Al-Ali Laughs] after the the accident.

Yes, the accident destroyed of the car.

Aa before the end of high school, I want to go back a little-

Yes?

To the beginning of high school aa what were the subjects that you studied, was it different from middle school aa-?

Look, I will tell you something about something that I always say- that one has to listen to people who are calm and wise, from sophomore so that when you become a junior, they will look at your grades, and see if you are a science major or a humanity major. They choose science major for me. They gave me the science major books, I was happy and then I went home, and I saw one of my cousins, he was older than me by three or four years, it wasn’t what was it called, so, he said, ha where? I told him science major, so he said do you want to pass or you want? Then he gave a lecture about how I should avoid going there.

Ooh.

Look how simple we were back then- the next day I grabbed my books [he laughs] okay or- I gave them back and told them I want to be a humanity, humanity major, I did not even like poetry, nor did I like memorizing, I did not like what is it- what brought me to humanity major.

You even mentioned that you loved math, didn’t you?

Yeah! I was- look my grades, it made them place in mathematics ha.

Aa so the school helped the student choose between the two majors?

Yes, yes, they would put you there based on your grades.

So, you choose the humanities aa?

Aaa no I choose- aa they choose science for me-

They choose science but aa you changed it to humanities major.

Because-

Aa aa of your cousin.

My cousin [he laughs].

So, you got into the humanities?

Humanities.

Aa how was the- what were the topics that you studied?

The humanities, there was geography, aaaaa what was it called Arabic and English aaah what-

Philosophy-

History?

Philosophy?

Yeah, a little bit of Philosophy and logic and I don’t know what yeah.

Aa okay, did you continue your activities like acting or theatre-?

No no no no-

No- not in high school.

No actually.

Aa oaky aa what was the, now how did you feel about going into the humanities major, did you-?

I feel, I feel, the problem, what was the problem I will tell you, the day day day I finished high school, I went and studied aviation, which is mostly science major related [he laughs], It’s like I went back, anyway-

Aa so was this the decision you made-?

No, it was wrong, I shouldn’t have listened to anyone, you know, it changed my life.

Your life plan right, okay in your senior year, what was the political atmosphere, you mentioned before something about protests, was anything like that happening in high school, and did you sign up for it or-?

No. I did not participate- oh yeah, I participated in one in 1973- aa when Iraq provoked us.

What year was that?

Aa 1973 or 1972-

Early 70s?

Yes yes early 70s, we went with what is it called, with the university, we were not university students though, but we went the, we went to Seif Palace, and Sheikh Saad talked to u, because they reminded them of the sixties, Abdullah Al-Salem days, Bu Salem “give us a gun.” Aa so, so so they started to say the same thing back then they said go back home and if God wills everything will be good. Aa so, you had participated in politics aa-?

Back then? I read and my political interests started but as actual participation no, because my father was a prime minister at that time-

Aa okay before we move on, can you talk to me about your father, at that point what did you think of your father’s work, or your relationship with your father in general? My father probably was one of the people who hated their jobs the most, he did not like his job, he wanted to rest, and he wanted, but my grandfather god rest his soul, pushed and supported my father to be in the national assembly and he wasn’t that old, national assembly national assembly aa then he survived as a prime minister for 10 years.

Wow.

Mm, from 1971 to 1989, 1981.

So, you were exposed to politics through your father and grandfather-

Yes, through him, and when he talked about politics I would listen to him, he was a reader.

And what was your relationship with him like, were you c aa close to each other or? I mean-

At times we were close but other times we disagreed, and you know it depends on the the then aa.

And and aa aa you mentioned your grandfather was he aa did you live in the same house or were you close to him?

No, his house was in Al-Jahra, but he was a strong man, he made a name for himself aa he was a good man you know.

How exactly, can you tell me about him?

How do you mean aa-?

About your grandfather?

My grandfather was my role model, like I told you he was a self-made man, he built himself, and he helped people aa he was lovable, he made a career for his son, yeah? Ahm.

So, he was a special man.

Do you remember aa something that happened with him or something he said to you or a story that had an influence on you and you remember it?

God rest his soul, I will give you an example, I did not tell anyone about it, but I will tell you, we went to visit him in Lebanon, me the son of his son, and two more children of his daughters and he would give each of them 5 pounds and he would give me a 100 pounds.

[Al-Ali Laughs] you were his favorite.

Not the favorite but the son of his son, he was old fashioned, so my cousins would get jealous [he laughs].

So, you were special.

Yes, yes yes yes yes yes –

to your grandfather may God rest his soul.

If I entered the diwaniya he wouldn’t let me sit anywhere except beside him.

The diwaniya in Al-Jahra?

Yes.

Aa you went to the diwaniya since you were little?

No, we went there on Thursdays and Fridays, we had a house in Al-Jahra next to our grandfather’s house and the diwaniya, aa we would go there during the weekend.

And who visited the diwaniya?

The people of Jahra the the the the the the men, statesmen here in Kuwait, the, the Amir and in Eid the the the the crown prince and prime ministers everyone would come.

And you were young, let’s say in middle school and high school, did you like going there or was it something you were forced to do-?

No not really, I liked going, I liked going yes, I like going.

And did you interact with aa people and-?

Yes- I did not always go there for the diwaniya, I went there with the guys to sports clubs and whatever mm.

Mm, aa okay at this stage aa the the high school aa aa except for the protests that you participated in and Sheikh Saad speeches, aa did you participate aa in other events of that kind?

No, I didn’t didn’t, our interests were different back then [he laughs]-

Not political interests-

Yes political-

Aa okay you mentioned that aa aa the economic, political aa thinking was starting to form-

Yes, yes yes- yes-

In high school, aa how aa and and what pushed you to this-?

Politics, because I lived in a family that was part of politics, my father and and and and and the newspapers and magazines I used to read, here I started to notice more about certain things.

What political magazines did you read?

Magazines, maga. No, I mean newspapers it was newspapers-

Yes, or newspapers yeah-

The aa everything, everything that was there aaa Al-Qabas, Al-Rai and public policy aa- Al-Anbaa.

Was there a specific writer you read of-

Yes, yes Mohammad Musaed Al-Saleh I- I read his work, remarkable man, I read for Saadan he was in aa politics- I read for aa aaa whom at that time? Back then, more than one really but I can’t seem to remember [he coughs].

Aa and this was in aa high school, for example- let’s say for example at the end of the high school, did you have any idea of what aa after school- aa you wanted to study or-?

Look I am stubborn.

[Al-Ali Laughs].

And and and and and look, I my father told me something, he said look you have to study and get a high GPA or else there is not traveling abroad, so it kind of stuck in my head that I won’t ask him to travel abroad- so, I finished high school with a low GPA.

Mm, in the humanities major?

Yes, I did not get a good GPA, anyway aah what to do and what to say, the next day, I had long hair, and I did not have any business with the army nor with.

[Al-Ali laughs].

My friends came to me and said that we are going to sign up for the army, so I told them God bless you, go. They said come with us, didn’t I tell you guys I, I have no business with the army, so, he said no this is the first time they open a sign up for the navy, the first time in Kuwait, things will be impassable and the future will be good, and they persuaded me then I said I will go, I will go, we went there and I signed up for the navy, they interviewed me and told me that the navy wants only science majors, see how it came back, so I told them thank you I don’t even want to, for some reason they called and told me come and see the what is it called look at ground force they told me there are engineers involved, I told them I don’t want to.

[Al-Ali laughs].

Navy or nothing else.

You were determined.

Yes, I was, and I felt like I was the best in Kuwait-

[Al-Ali laughs].

Anyway, the third option was the Air Force, I went to meet with the head of the Air Force, and he started telling me that we are in aviation, and we are like that like this like that like this like that, anyhow, I told him I only want navy-

[Al-Ali laughs]. Look at me I am an Air Force Commander (the Commander said) trying to convince me to sign up, then a man entered I think a Sargent, or he had two striped, he called me and told that they asked me to call you for the last time or to put the file away. And he proceeded to tell me that I have a file that just got delivered stating in two months, two months and they will take you to United State of America, ooh!

[Al-Ali laughs] a chance to travel.

So, I was like since my father is not going to help and I didn’t do anything, so I told him I accept, [he laughs] then we had harsh training for six months in the Military Academy.

Where was the Military Academy?

At the same place aa on the street aa, the street where there is an academy, academies, and the army and the anyway, against-

And this was when you just graduated from high school?

Yes, we finished from high school-

You were young-

Yes.

18 years old?

Yes, almost 18.

You signed up there wh- what was what was- for example- your da- can you describe a day there?

Oh god ho ho ho, yeah, we had to wake up early in the morning and then do some exercising and running and do this and- the guns and then I don’t know what and then and then they let the the people who came a year before us be in charge of us- and they, all they know what to do is punishment and I don’t know what, and they would wake us up in the middle of the night throw us in the mud, I want to be a pilot I want to be I don’t know what, some of the guys got up and their legs were in a brutal condition poor guys.

How did you feel- when you suddenly got exposed to these things?

We got through it [he laughs]

And and because you mentioned also that you had a rebellious side and you had long hair aa-

No at that time we had to cut our hair, to shave it-

But how did aa aa you feel moving from this stage to not only discipline but like as you mentioned punishment also-

Mm, yeah yeah yeah-

How did you-

I was overwhelmed and everything, but one did not have choices.

Yeah.

[Al-Ayar coughs] and you know I was the type of guy that did not like to aa fail-

Ah, so you kind of had to push yourself to complete it.

Yes, I pushed myself and yeah yeah I endured- yes yes.

Okay except for the aa the aa the physical training that you did was there anything else you did like topics you studied or-

Yes, there was studying, but in the end, it was mostly physical.

Mm, and who was there with you, you mentioned that your friends were with you?

Yes, a lot of them, yes, I remember them, our class was the sixth, and this class was the one that kind of handled the entire army-

Mm, and you studied for six months.

No, we studied for six months and then they took us into the Air Force they took us to the United States of America.

Where in the states, where did you go?

We went to Texas, San Antonio.

Aa how was it- was this the first time you went to the states or did you g-

Ah, yes, I did not I did not go to the states before.

Mm, and did you go anywhere else other than Lebanon?

Yeah no, where could I travel to.

Aa at this point did you go anywhere other than Lebanon?

Yes, I travelled, my parents took me to London aa to study language with with a family, aaa during our trip to Algeria-

Ah, yeah yes…

We stopped in Italy and in Greece.

This is when you went to Algeria with the scouts?

With the scouts yes yes.

Aa and what did you do in aa Greece?

They took us to see some archaeological sites and took us to I don’t know where and, and and the same thing in Italy.

And this was the Ministry of Education that aa-?

Yes, the one responsible for the scouts yes yes, the Ministry of Education.

Excellent, and and when did you go to study language in in aa England?

If I am not mistaken around 1970 or 1971-

What- how was that experience?

Experience [he laughs] nice, I went to Eastbourne, Eastbourne on the seaside, it was a city for retirees and like that and like this, so, I studied but I then I did not even finish school, and the family, I lived with them I paid them eight pounds and a half on weekly basis, they fed me and did my laundry [he laughs]-

[Al-Ali laughs]-

They did- for eight pounds and a half weekly-

And did you practice your English with them?

You had to speak to them in English and in school too but then little by little I withdrew from school.

This was in the 70s?

Yes.

Was there any kind of racism from them towards Arab or-

No no no no not really the opposite no no no there was no-

Or did you feel anything?

No not really, London back then was different than London now; there was nothing!

In what way for example?

There weren’t many places I mean, they had Indian restaurants [he laughs], and alright? This or that, nothing much really.

Not like now?

No not a chance.

Aa okay aa you went to aa the states aa in aa what year?

Aa 1974.

1974 a group of kuw- Kuwaiti youth by way of the aa-

Yes, yes yes yes.

Aa and you went to Texas, aa-

We studied English in San Antonio, and and and and we studied the basics of aa aviation [he coughs] and then what is it called and then aa- we went to another place.

And how was Texas, like when you went was there anyone-

[Al-Ayar coughs]-

To gre- greet you or-

How do you mean?

Like when – you arrived there did was anyone there to greet you?

No, yeah there was Kuwaiti liaison officer in charge, then aa they took us by buses and and and they took us to the dorm-

And did you study language there?

Mhm.

were you in college or?

No, we were in Lakeland Air Force Base.

Okay, aa and and you started the basics of aviation aa what did you study first?

No there wasn’t. There was a place they called base city and look at all these planes I flew all of them.

Ohh.

You know?

Yeah.

The first one the orange small one that was the first basic one.

Beautiful.

Yes.

Aa, [she laughs]-

[Al-Ayar laughs].

Okay, when you first got there, did you learn to fly there for the first time?

Yes.

Aa what made you go into this field? What did you like about it-?

They told us, they will take us to to the states quickly [he laughs].

Ahh so-

That was the reason-

The trip was the-

This trip was the-

The trip was the- aam okay aa, so you got to Texas and started the basics, learning the basics aa aa-

Aviation-

Aviation, aa do you remember the first plane aa or how did they teach you to pilot aa your first plane?

Yes, the Cessna 41, aaa you would fly with with- a trainer for a while then, finally they let you fly alone.

Do you remember how you felt the first time you-

When I flew alone? Ohhh my legs were shaking like da da da da da [he laughs] you know. Yeah, you know how your first time feels, but bit by bit it went away.

Aa aa Have you experienced any difficulties in terms of studying or work training?

No, no thank God.

Aa or for example did you like something a lot at that point?

No, aaa- we started, to learn how to love it, because we did not like it originally, I came for it, bit by bit I started loving it bit by bit.

Aa what made you start s aa taking interest in this aa subject?

Aa- the excitement of the aa kind of planes that were coming, the grades that you get all of that help because every time you go out to fly with the trainer he would give evaluations, so you end up looking for the competition between you and your friends and see who the best amongst us is.

Aa the the aa the group of Kuwaitis that you were with, did everyone love the or were they outstanding or was there any difficulties-?

Really outstanding, not really my group was excellent.

And and how long did you stay in Texas?

Texas, we are done with San Antonio ha? We stayed for four months or five months, then we went to Pittsburg, Texas which was a long way-

Mhm. We flew two planes, a plane called T37 and and and and and T38 ohh how how do I tell you? The time that we studied there who studied with us? The Vietnamese, during the Vietnam War [he laughs] they brought them trained them and sent them, also the Iranians studied with us-

Ohh wow.

The days of the shah, see how the history was-

Yes, aa do you remember for example what wa the [she laughs] there aa aa a lot of things at this point but do you remember how your communication with the Vietnamese was or with the-

No no there was nothing.

You did not have for example aa-

No nothing they were the last class too.

And and with the m like the Iranians?

You mean competition with the Iranians?

Ah.

At that time, they got paid more than we did, so they were like the aa-

Yeah, and and aa the group of Kuwaitis there did you have a student union that you kept in touch with?

No no, we would gather and cook, and they would…

What kind of activities did you do other than studying?

Ahm football, and we started bowling, aaaa m- cooking competitions between us and see who makes the best rice with chicken.

And did you cook?

Yes, I cooked yes-

[Al-Ali laughs] what did you cook?

[Al-Ayar coughs] no, I was the king of making rice with chicken [he laughs]

[Al-Ali laughs] and were you good at making it aa-

Yes, I was capable.

Ah perfect, aa any other activities you did in aa-

[Al-Ayar coughs] cinema.

And and aa you were in Texas the whole time you were studying aviation, or did you move?

We stayed in Pittsburg, Texas.

Yes yes.

Aa until 1976.

Mhm.

We returned to Kuwait with our ranks, as officers and then we stayed in Kuwait and flew some planes for a year and at the end we flew the Sky Hawk.

Aa I want to talk about Texas a little more, you were the first class aa-

First class in the US from the sixth group-

Ooh.

But we went on batches.

But you were the first batch (class) that got sent to to-

Yes yea, yeah.

To Texas, aa and and you mentioned to me aa the planes that that you tried aa or p- aa you flew, which which plane was your favorite or one that affected –

The white one.

The white one?

Do you see it?

Why was it your aa favorite?

It was very smooth supersonic.

Aa mm, you were, when you were in Texas, did you come to Kuwait for the holidays?

Yes, I think we only got one vacation or something-

Aa aa after h-k- like when you traveled how long was it until you got back? A year-

No we went for the first time and then came back aa after eight or seven months aa we came back here for a vacation for a few days-

Mhm.

And then after. No, we came for a longer vacation.

Mm, and did you experience a culture shock when you came back to Kuwait after that while or-

No-

Was it normal in society again?

Normal, normal but the time I was in the states ooh [he laughs]-

How did your parents welcome you, was it-?

Ohh ah I mean.

Did you bring back gifts with you aa for them or-?

Yes, I tried yes aa h yes, for example I brought an electronic watch, it just came out then-

Ah [she laughs].

I would bring for my sisters and brothers, aa the instant camera, this kind of stuff.

So, they waited for your arrival-

Yeah yes, they would get happy-

In that regard, aam and you stayed in Texas how many years?

I stayed there aa aa for almost two years, yes two years.

Mmm and after that?

We came back to Kuwait then went to Arizona.

Arizona.

Yuma, Arizona.

You came back to Kuwait for –

A year.

A year, aa did you work in aa in a particular place or aa-

No, no in Air Force, I flew planes yeah-

Was it a job or was it training?

No, no no no it was a job, I was an officer and a pilot and everything yeah.

And and what did you do during that period of time?

We flew planes; we flew every day.

Ah, where?

[He laughs] Kuwait’s atmosphere-

There was like aa-

A specific training place there was there was-

A training place that you liked or remember-?

No there were training places, we would go there and train there.

And the people there, were they the same group that you were with?

Yes, our group, then the ones who did not become fighter pilot, they transferred him to helicopters for example.

Ah.

Yeah, this is how we were distributed and then-

And was it like you got to choose aa which field to go into-?

No no- no no the trainers, they would tell us where this or that one goes.

And you were in which group or in which-

I I aa stayed on the bas- that they would take me to Sky Hawk-

Okay.

The fighter.

And and you went after a year from aa-

Yes almost, yes-

From Kuwait to Arizona-

Yuma, Arizona.

Aa aa how was studying there or training there?

Mm, it was one of the best days at that time, because why, at the beginning studying was easy, in the first few days, and after we were done and finished with our exams and everything, I would be done with studying, and then regarding aviation, if you had aviation you can come if not then you stay at home, and at times if it happens to be that you don’t have aviation that day, then you don’t have to come at all, all day.

Nice-

So, it was easy.

Aa and h- how long did you stay in Arizona?

Not much, around seven, eight months something like that.

Seven months aa did you live with the students or with-?

No, I had my own apartment-

Mm, nice.

Then I rented a villa and brought my wife, I got married while I stayed there-

Ah, when you stayed in Kuwait-

Yes.

Aa you mentioned your wife she was aa-

Yes, she was my cousin.

Your cousin.

My mother’s cousin [he laughs].

Aa so, you met her in or like-

I saw her at a family gathering.

Yes, and you married her during that period of time-

Yes, [he coughs].

Aam, you got married and your wife moved there with you-?

No, she came there later-

To the states-? Yes.

Aa how did you balance between, between between the aa aviation and the start of aa your marital life?

About the in- in in in America, especially this pla- place on the contrary it is comfortable, I told you there was no pressure or anything. So, we had time for fun and to go places and everything- you know? There was no hardship and all. Sometimes I had an aviation class at 5.am. in the morning.

Ah nice.

I would go and finish, from five and I would finish by six thirty, I finish at seven.

And and for example these trainings were there on specific days that aa-

Yes yes, they would give it to you-

Aviation training?

Yes, yes yes.

And and and what planes did you aa-?

Sky Hawk, we trained on the mm yeah.

And and and and, how did you feel when you started flying, was it like aa like more strict or aa more serious than than than aa-

The beginning yes-

From Texas?

Because this this this one had a weapon, there was air combat involved-

Fighter-

And it was it was more advanced.

Yes, aa aa and then after-

Flig- it had night flight mm.

Was there a big difference between this and the the previous flights?

Of course, there was a difference, a big one, but the first one is what gave you all the basics.

Yes, aa okay you were with your wife in in America aa did you have aaa aa any kids at that time?

No, I had a daughter, but I did not see her until she was three months old-

Ah.

My wife gave birth to her and stayed there with her and then she came to me.

Aaah yeah in Kuwait-

Yes, yes, and yes and then she came and then we went back together, her and I.

What was aa what was aa your daughter’s name?

Baidaa.

Baidaa, aa and how aa old were you, in your early twenties at that time?

I was was young, let me tell you, I was- no, not in my aa, I got married when I was 22 years old, so she was born when I was 23 years old, 24 years old-

Yeah early, early nice-

Yes 24 years old, 24 years old.

And and your wife came aa aa with your daughter in in-

No, my daughter stayed in Kuwait-

In kuw- and your wife came to you, to America-

Aa yes she came and then we went back together.

And and aa you went back after the-

My course finished and we went back together-

Aa your course, what was your position in Kuwait?

[Al-Ayar coughs].

You position or your job?

The ranks came after two years, I was a lieutenant then I became a captain.

Aa were where you aa like where was your actual place of work in what-?

At first it was in Kuwait’s airport then after we went to aa Ahmad Al-Jaber, aa Ahmad Al-Jaber base.

Mm, aa this was in what year?

What year? [he coughs] aaah-

We can say end of the 70s?

Yes 1978 maybe-

Aa aa oaky-

1978-

Aa who worked with you, were they all Kuwaitis or were there non-Kuwaitis?

No, there was there was European trainers- and there were Pakistani trainers and there were Kuwaiti trainers yeah.

So, there was aa-

Varieties.

A different variety of- aa how was the nature of work, of course it was different than aa America-

Yes-

For example, how was the nature of the actual work?

Okay.

And and do you prefer America or-

No, America was a place for training and stuff, but here no, here there is commitment and a house and kids [he laughs] and work, but it was a good experience, I sti- I remember I remember there was nothing but good things.

And and let’s say aa in the late 70s, you were aa living with your wife or in your family house in-?

My house, the family house, and my wife with me yes-

Aa in Al-Khaldiya?

Yes, in Al-Khaldiya-

Aa what was changed about Kuwait between early the 70s and the end of the 70s, I mean Al-Khaldiya for example the streets, the places?

Yea of course ah yes yes, as they say in Kuwait the end of a beautiful era, ever since the 70s ended in Kuwait, the decline started.

In, in what way?

In every way, - Sports, education, and and and and the economy, Al-Manakh crisis in 82, so, aa.

Aa aa I want to keep this part- the 80s maybe for aa-

Yes yes, the 80s yeah-

For aa for another time but aa if if you m if you may aa can we stay in the 70s, aa so you lived in in Khaldiya with aa-

With my father and the family-

With your father and- was there a difference in population density compared to the first time you moved to Khaldiya aa-?

How do you mean, I did not-?

Were there more buildings in in the area?

Yes, yes yes yes the area was built up, I mean all of Kuwait in the 70s aa.

And and aa was there a difference socially aa aa in the 70s aa-?

The 70s, look the 70s was a beautiful era, Kuwait was yes, the 70s was a beautiful era.

Or were there any places you used to go to aa?

Mm, so, no aah.

Like for entertainment?

At that point we were interested in the diwaniya and friends and and-

[Al-Ali laughs].

You know what I mean? These kinds of interests? Going to a match or I don’t know or.

And did you have a bit of integration into politics after you came back from America?

Yes, yes more, I read more aa, the aa debating and you know we had diwaniya, give and take and opinions and other opinions and that, yes.

What kind of aa political subjects that for example aa that you were interested in or you focused on at that point?

The economic subjects, projects, what was Kuwait’s vision or- you know this kind of stuff.

Like what economy projects or subjects that you were?

Like like w w what did we want to do as Kuwait, back then, there was no right answer, but we tried-

Was there any future vision aa regarding you or in general aa-?

Aa we all had opinions at that time-

Yeah-

But nothing based on numbers and and-

Reality or or or the foundation-

Yes.

Aa a would you like to stop here or shall we continue into the 80s era?

Whatever is convenient for you?

Okay aa we can continue.

Ha?

Regarding the early 80s you worked in aa in the same place at the base?

Mhm.

And and aam you stayed in the field aa aviation field aa and was there-

But I had business related interests.

Mm, what was aa it?

I had, me and the the the the one I told you about my brother-in-law, we were friends, we opened up a shop that sells sheets and sell I don’t know what and sells that, and it was a real success, excellent-

Where was this shop?

In the main aa Nugra Mall.

Mm, and this was in the early 80s?

Aa end of 70s, early 80s-

Nice, do you remember the name of the shop?

Al-Baidaa-

Al-Baidaa!

After after my [he laughs].

Yes yes [she laughs].

Yes, it was named after my daughter, the second thing we did was a company, then. So, you try to to do things left and right, but what? Then Al-Manakh came, and Al-Manakh blinded us.

Yeah.

So, this successful work and things, the market caught our eyes and this kind of stuff, and these took us back a bit there and Al-Manakh’s incident started.

Aa the company that- what was the company that-?

Ha?

The company that you founded with your cousin what was it, what company was it?

General Trading Company.

Do you remember the name?

Yes Al-Ay- Al-Ayar and Al-Sayer company.

Mashallah.

[Al-Ayar laughs].

Aa aa okay and this was in the early 80s, aam the the shop that aa aa you opened do you remember aa what made you choose this the aa-

Place?

The place or-

It was available.

What made you choose this the the this specific field?

We we did it the simple way, we did not try to handle everything, and and because of our experiences in America, and we went to America a lot and stuff, they were famous for sheets and I don’t know what, so we bought items in wholesale, at first we bought things from shops.

Yeah.

Buy them and collect them and- and they would send it to us here, and we found a company that would make us the sheets, it wasn’t sophisticated, but it was something and then it got trendy here.

Mhm.

Because there there was was a shop or two shops that sold these specific things-

Nice mmm.

So, we became the leaders in the market, but you know we would sell quickly and then there would not be any merchandise, and then for two or three months we would have to pay the rent [he laughs] our business wasn’t that big.

Yes, and then after you opened up the company aa aa aa-

And we had a company.

What did you do in in the company?

We imported and we sold, and we would do things of that kind like one of the deals that we made we brought barbeques and we started selling it-

Ahh…

Back then, aaa and and aah we had that- a company called Kerby the what is it called the one that is a cleaning company.

Mhm.

They did polishing and did I don’t know what, it had like 20 thousand things, we had salespeople that would go and sell it in the market, we succeeded also in the beginning.

Was there a market for this?

Kuwaitis were open to it.

And and aa the- your father was more of a politician than an economist-

Yes-

What did he think of aa…

My job-?

Your economic activity?

This was where I disagreed with my father.

Mhm.

Because in 1981 I decided to quit the Air Force.

Ooh.

Because that time it was Al-Manakh era and I don’t know what and this I felt like I knew all about business [he laughs] so, so I quit- you know resignation takes time and it’s not easy, they spent so much money on you.

Yes.

So, my dad was upset with me, because one, I was married and that was a steady job, and you get out like that throwing yourself on a roc-

Yeah.

Secondly when your resignation goes to the Council of Ministers because you know they have to issue a decree-

Ahh.

And if someone sees it that would be embarrassing for him.

Mhm.

We did not talk for a year-

Ah.

He did not talk to me.

Because of that decision?

Because of this decision, but.

Aa-

Now aa aa god rest his soul before he died, I reminded him and told him you see how- that my choice was right [he laughs]-

Okay aa okay when you made that decision personally, were you like aa sure of it or was there any hesitation-?

No really- I was sure about it because I was I was young and everything, but aa what is called, but it was risky.

Yeah, what made you aa-

No, I wanted I wanted I wanted to do something.

You wanted to be dedicated to it.

Not dedicated but I felt like there was room, and I told you Al-Manakh blinded us.

How, in what way?

Like when you enter a market, and you sell and buy and earn ten thousand dinars…

Yeah.

And when I looked at my bank account it was double that number.

Ooh wow.

You know what a dream-

A feeling…

A dream a dream-

Nice, okay and how were you able to make the decision of leaving the field that you studied and and-

And one had kids [he laughs].

Yes, exactly that you lea…

Irrational.

Mmm.

It was a million percent an irrational decision, like if I was in my right mind today ha, I would not have done it.

Mm, and were you comfortable, because if if for example the family had more of a political interest or or or an educational one, were you aa confident with this decision to go into this field aa-?

No and between, let me tell you. When I got into Al-Manakh and then it collapsed, and the job that you left, or you marginalized needs money and needs work. So, and you have a family that wants this and that, so it was a critical time for me.

Yes.

The family provided me with work at their companies to run them but you know these things bring problems because of the inheritance [he laughs] and I don’t know what, it wasn’t that comfortable.

Yes, okay aa if we can focus o- now on the aa the collapse, the collapse of Al-Manakh, as you mentioned aa do you remember that time-?

Oh, how could I not, I remember it. For me- thank God I did not go into debt not not not not, but, aa aa the psychological shook, from feeling like a millionaire to feeling that you went right back to the start, it was painful. And I remember at that time I remember a lot of people, not all were adventurous but there were people that lost all their money, I knew people their money- and and their inheritance.

Aa oaky do you remember how you heard about it or the initial shook-?

No I did not hear about it, we started feeling it and seeing it in the market, you see it the trading decreased there were no buyers, we heard that cheques were being returned [he coughs] that was the beginning of the end.

And and and and what were, I mean like when it happened did you realize that the problem was big and that there is a crisis-?

[Al-Ayar coughs].

Let’s say crisis, what was your initial reaction?

I I was like this is one of the best things I ever did, I did not leave any stock, I sold them all-

Initially?

No not initially, no no no during the crisis I had none. And there were people who wanted to buy, that would do anything, whether it was good or bad it did not matter but I did not leave any, the people that got damaged more, were the ones who kept their stocks, it ended up being papers in their hands, at least I had cheques on people so when they started doing settlements and I don’t know what I gained cash back, so by that I mean that was a great reaction for me, this helped me to get out of it without being hurt.

Mm, but you mentioned there were people who suffered serious damage-

Oohh.

Aa what kind of damages were they if you remember?

How do you mean?

If you can talk about the damages, that that were for example let’s say in-

What to tell you their money was gone, is there more to it? Their money gone.

The reason was because they-

Mm?

They held on to.

Yes, I mean. There were people who got into it and then what, they lived the dream of cheques on aa one hundred thousand became a million- we never saw a cheque of million Kuwaiti dinar I don’t know what, and this was when you were young or-

Mmm.

So, what I mean is that it went like a mirage like woosh.

And what was the aa general situation, people's reaction in Kuwait in general?

Ohh, whoever wanted to gloat, gloated. And who ever wanted to slander the government at that time, slandered it, and who wanted- each with their own issue, the situation was terrifying.

Mhm.

Because it affected everyone.

How so?

It was one of the biggest economic crises, and after Al-Manakh collapsed, the government came up with programs that took over almost all of the companies.

Mhm.

So, the biggest share belonged to the government, this paralyzed the private sector, you know how? S.

And and and you sir aa aam you mentioned that your father was aa against this shift, what was his reaction when this thing happened.

When that happened?

Yes.

No, because it was everyone, it wasn’t only me [he laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs] yes exactly, yeah.

Aa aa it was a collapse ha? So, it was okay.

And your relationship with your father, aaa was good at that time?

Yes after, it became better and.

This was in the early 80s?

1981-

Aa ah-

My resignation-

Mmm?

December 1981.

Yes, and and after Al-Manakh crisis?

Al-Manakh crisis happened in 1982.

Yes, aa after the crisis what were the consequences? Aa for you personally and for for the general atmosphere in Kuwait?

I told you the private sector was in in a coma, and and for me personally as I told you- that made me work with the family-

What did you work as aa with the family?

They had a company aaa that bought and sold metal and had I don’t know what, had more than one business, and another manufacturing company, it manufactured ducting flexible duct, and I don’t know what, that was my first time running something like this, so I learned from it a lot, and and but I got tired of the inheritance issue, and this and that-

Yeah.

So, in 1986 I quit- I was there from 2-, from 1982 to 1986-

Ah so, you worked for a long time-

Yes, four years or three to four years-

In this field-

Yes yes-

Aa as you were working did you ever think about going back to aviation or you had a feeling that you were-

Not, really from all the hard work I said to myself I want to go back to what is it called nine to five, I mean you know going to work taking my paycheck and then leaving.

Yes-

In summer I would go with my kids on vacation, I did not want anything else no headache no private sector not-

Something, something that is stable and-

Yeah, and peace of mind ha?

Comfortable yes, aa you didn’t miss your piloting days or to the-

No no no not this what is called but but like I told you I wanted- I sought out to work in mm, work in a place where I go from nine to five but aa thank god I did not-

And and and at that time, how many kids aa did you have?

I had a son. So, I had a son and a daughter.

Aa Baidaa and?

And Mubarak.

And Mubarak aa mashallah.

Yes.

And their schools were in Kuwait?

Yes, yes, they were in private schools.

Yes, aa and you mentioned you travelled during the summer aa-

Travel every year-

Where did you go in the summer?

Aa London, aaa they would go and explore places, and the last, the year of the Iraqi invasion they were in Hamburg-

Oooh.

Mm mm yeah yeah, so in sum- they went to a lot of places-

Aa before we move to the Iraqi invasion. So, in 1986 aa you quit from your job that-

Yeah, from the family’s company.

With the family and and and and you went-

And then you worked in the private sector-

In-?

With, an institution, aaa what was it called, institution aaa owned projects and stocks in projects and own-

What was it called?

Al-Fotouh.

Al-Fotouh ah yes, in-

[Al-Ayar laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs] in 1986?

Yeah, in August-

Aaa aa wh- and and what pushed you to that place or?

No not really there was a chance give and take and and they aa offered me a position and I took it.

Aam and what was aa-

My responsibility?

Yes, what was your job-?

I was in charge of the Saudi milk, in Saudi Arabia I was in charge of Sadafco, and more than one thing, it was small here I was in charge of them.

Like what?

We had, Hamour Company and there was, and we ha- and and we had farms in Al-Jahra, and we had a scaffolding company it was a couple of companies.

Different-

I followed up with them.

Okay at that time let’s say in the middle of the 80s before the 90s it was a loaded period, politicly in the area and socially also in Kuwait aa- did you have anything to do with, with politics or your father maybe-?

No, no was bu- I was busy a lot-

Okay.

And I had, I had this thing where this is my last job and I don’t I don’t I don’t know that I have to succeed-

Mm mm you wa, wanted aa this to be that yeah-

Yeah fou- focused and the effort the Saudi Arabia demanded was a big effort- and the, and there were problems, so there were times where I would just get back in Kuwait and then I get a call to come back on the same day.

Aa to Saudi Arabia?

Yes. Back then as much as it was.

So, you moved between Kuwait and Saudi Arabia-?

Yes, yes, all the time.

How was this stage aa regarding-?

Difficult difficult being away from your family.

Mm, and and in in that period the aa 80s you mentioned that you frequented to aa- the diwaniyas-

No, not a lot-

It was not-

Lot a lot, I did not did not did not go there a lot, it was a small group but then I stopped.

Aaa did you have like aa relationship in or have you heard about diwa- Monday diwaniyas in the 80s?

Yes of course I heard, and I read, read, and followed the news-

What was the aa aa what was your opinion on the matter?

It was a confrontation between authority and aa group, aa, I don’t follow this and I don’t follow blindly- I would read a case and say this case is right, or the country’s mistake or was it right or the group’s fault-

How did people react generally at that aa time?

A lot of people were engaged, engaged, look at the country, aah they dissolved the National Assembly more than once, and a lot of times when it got dissolved, they would say that’s it get rid of them, but their performance wasn’t up to that level that satisfied people, so there were aa mistakes.

And and for example, socially, was there any difference aa that you noticed between the 70s and the 80s?

Yes, there was a difference.

Mm, aa in what way?

I mean the the community was closed off in general, aaa parties and I don’t know what- all banned, the 80s era was a step backwards.

Mm, because of the Muslim Brotherhood?

No, no it was the Iran Iraqi war, aa 1987 had a big impact on Kuwait.

How?

I will be clear about this, the the the the the aa there was fear within the country [he coughs] of the Shiite doctrine and aa the aa, so, that encouraged the stimulation of other religious movements in Kuwait-

Oh yes.

They gave them freedoms and they gave them that-

As a reaction you mean-

You know how?

Mhm.

So, aa [he coughs] so this was, what is it called-

In the 80s it was a bit of aa strict era-

This was- aa one of the main mistakes.

Yes, aa so we can say that in the 80s there were aa more of aaa social restrictions?

There were social restrictions and decline in everything, decline in sports, decline in education, and decline in theatre, decline in everything.

And was this something the community noticed in general or?

Accepted?

Yes.

No, not accepted, but what? Their voice was not heard, the opposing one was higher.

Yeah, aa, okay, aa if you may aa can we stop here in the 80s and the aa next time we can talk about about the Iraqi invasion?

Yes.

Aa but for example aa but aa last thing about the aa 80s, you started at the aa Fotouh Company in 1986 and you stayed?

I worked on the project until 1990.

Yes, aa what were you most interested in between 1986 and the time before the Iraqi Invasion? My interests.

Personal interests outside the the-

Yes.

The the your job.

My interests in 1986… my career-

Mmm.

So, it was-

You focused on it.

Ha yeah, this what is it called-

You focused on it. Aa okay what personal projects aa did you have outside the aa work?

There wasn’t anything, very limited.

And and and and what were the most prominent projects in terms of working at Al Fotouh. The one you aa-

The one I was in charge of? I had two divisions, the one with the aa Saudi Arabia milk Sadafco and and Hempel that time.

Aa you mentioned that there were some obstacles regarding aa aa aa Saudi Arabia what was-

There were disagreements there-

What were the aa the difficulties that you faced personally?

In Saudi Arabia?

Mmm.

Aaa no, there were some fierce disputes between the partners, I tried to prevent the company from getting affected. So, I was trying to steer these disagreements away from the work of the company because it was a successful and excellent company-

Yes.

Aa so I did not want it to get affected- so thank God.

So, aa what was the most thing, the most difficult thing you faced regarding this-?

This, what I told you trying to keep the company problems away from the actual work.

How were you able to achieve the-?

Aaa like tactical [he laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs].

You try to win over the aa what is it called the ones that are there-

Mmm.

The second thing, because the CEO is sure of our point of view, I got every single manager and everything, and I told them when I ask you something or the other partner asks you, tell him I have to ask my superiors? So, when this asks a superior and this asks a superior to reach him? To the CEO who counts on me.

[Al-Ali laughs] yeah.

[Al-Ayyar laughs] you know what I mean?

Yes.

So, bit by bit, bit by bit until-

Things calmed down, aa okay in Kuwait you aa who was part of your work team aa-?

Limited, very limited.

Mm, aa were there Kuwaitis working in the company or?

Where in in the aa in the aa in Al-Fotouh?

Yes.

Yes, the company was private-

The the the aam your team, the one you are in charge of, yes-

I had I am a one man show [he laughs]. Aah [she laughs] you were not part of a big team or in charge of-?

No nothing big, I had an accountant and I had aa secretary and I don’t know-

So, the company in general was-

No this was me personally there were other divisions.

Mm, but the depart- department was-

Little very limited very limited-

Aa really small so, aa you were in charge of something-

Yes, but but when you go to Sadafco there is a huge setup aa and and you go to other places and there will be.

Aa for example in Kuwait the aa economic situation after Al-Manakh crisis were there any difficulties aa that you faced?

There was no private sector, it was in debt, and it had I don’t know what.

A total collapse.

Yes, yes totally, yes yes so it was survival for them.

Aa okay Mr. Faisal Al-Ayyar we can stop at this point, thank you.

We are starting now aa my name is Reem Al-Ali today is 24th of February 2021 and it is almost 12.p.m. we are currently in Kuwait City, aa at KIPCO Tower and and today is the second session for the Oral History and Documentation Project under the library of the American University of Kuwait and we have with us Mr. Faisal Al-Ayyar, thank you again sir for-

Welcome-

Agreeing to doing the interview, and and the last time aa we stopped at the 80s era-

Mmm.

Aa specifically at Al-Manakh crisis aa is there anything you want to add to this subject before we move on to the Iraqi invasion?

Since you started with 1981, I quit from the army and and and I was a pilot, at that time a captain, then got myself into Al-Manakh aa, so, its experiences [he laughs] were full of good and bad stuff and had everything but thank God we were less impacted, aaa-

What was good about it?

Aa aa you are young, and you have potential, you felt like a millionaire y y y y yyou know, we never had this kind of money in our hands before aa so aa, so it had its fun, but when these privileges go away you feel the consequence.

And and and and m, aa who were like the people from traders or people you remember you had close relationship with them?

No there are there are there are people- ok look, Al-Manakh. The small, the big, the poor and the rich everyone went into it the the the the the educated and the aa ignorant, so it was kind of a mix. And everyone wanted to reach the same goal, which is to have it all aa, so you would see the actors and see the singers and see the aa-

[Al-Ali laughs].

Everyone was in Al-Manakh this was, so, aa the world was enchanted and greedy and every dangerous thing was brought to reality.

Aa do you remember a specific person that influenced you because you aa your father was not in the field of economy; he was more into politics aa-

But he had solutions aa he kept up with these things he would advise me and warn me and stuff.

And and one of your acquaintance or one of the people you knew did anyone of them had a positive or a negative impact on you?

I had a mind of my own really [he laughs] you know how? But everyone hears stories left and right, listen to him or gives an advice- everyone suddenly is an expert, but there were not people, if people knew what would happen then everyone would’ve sold before Al-Manakh collapse.

Indeed, aa you mentioned like aa advice aa do you remember it aa someone told you whether your father or anyone else at that time?

The advice was that I don’t get blinded by the thigs that happened be cautious, this was from from-

And do you think you followed that advice?

No, I was cautious, but in the- this field one did not have time to be cautious, everything was so fast, the events happened fast but I was cautious.

Aam okay when the crisis happened how did you feel? Aa-

This is my work and and – I don’t have a shop and I don’t know what this but aa these were my revenues. So, it was great psychological pressure but that time my family had two companies so aaa my father was heading both, and he told me to take charge of it, so I went and worked. This covered that period ha? Three to four years.

Yes, aa you mentioned that your father was aa not not opposed to but did not agree totally for you to go to this field aa-

This is an important point because here it is like he is telling me; didn’t I say why did you quit your job and resigned like this? He did not say it directly, but I saw it in his eyes and in h [he laughs] this, this was what we were scared of.

Yes, and you sir did you feel any regret after you took this step or?

Look there was a time… Aa we got out of the army and Al-Manakh and the- we strived and ran and – a time came I would tell myself, what a swe- sweet job you go to work in the morning and come back in the afternoon aa and go on vacations with your family or I don’t know who or, but aaa this is how I felt, but there were frustrations too.

Yeah, and in these three, four years aa we can say that your lifestyle slowed down a bit, and you took some kind of aa-?

Yes, yes yes, s slowed down you’re right and, and and my interests started to evolve and at that time I did not have a house, and I wanted a house, and it was like this and that, this kind of stuff.

Aa and and w where were you living at that time?

The beginning of my marriage I lived at my family’s house, then-

In Khaldiya?

In Khaldiya, then I moved, see? To to aa an apartment facing the sea, it was two floors, and it was a very nice life there-

Where was the apartment?

In Salmiya, facing Al-Tal Al-Seyahi, facing the complex it was and and and and it was a beautiful time, our kids had fun and learned how to swim in the swimming pool, I stayed there for three years.

Aa who were you neighbors or-?

Aa mostly foreigners-

Aa yes nice.

Mostly foreigners, but what? It was expensive, a big part of my salary went towards rent.

Aa but what made you go and live in aa place like that aa and not in the residential areas or in your family house?

Family house no, my family was getting bigger, I had two kids you know? And and one wants independence and wants the, so aa rent and I like the sea I like looking at it and I love the the that so this was a location and it had a nice design the the the place.

And and you mentioned the sea aa aa to you like water activities or had a connection to-?

We had fun as guys really, we had boats and we would go sailing sometimes to fish and sometimes to have fun like swimming.

Where did you go when aa-

We to Kubbar island, we would go aa in front of the club and in front of this or that, what is it called- it was part of Kuwait, what does Kuwait have? Kuwait is either desert or sea.

Aa can you tell me about your sea trips aa if you went with your parents or with friends?

Aa sometimes with my kids, I would take them and sometimes with my friends we would go.

Mmm.

have fun- sometimes we would be a lot so we would go in a bigger boat, yacht, or something- But group, a good group with us, we sit, sit we would go from 11 a.m. like from noon to 5 o’clock, six o’clock when it gets dark.

Where did you sail from, from-?

Depends on, where is the where where is he boat or the yacht or that, where it is we sail from there, it would be in one of the marine docks and we would sail from there.

And and did you go to specific islands or-?

No, everyone would gather in Kubbar.

Mmm.

Okay? And and about fishing, there were specific places they knew so they got us there.

And and you sir you liked fishing too?

I liked it really, but not that much-

[Al-Ali laughs].

I would get bored.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Aam okay so after you lived in in Salmiya did you move to another place-?

To a house in Al-Andalous, we bought it.

Aa this was in what year?

1986.

1986 aam, and how many kids did you have-?

Two-

Baidaa and aa Mubarak, aa and you moved to Al-Andalous, how was the style of the house? Aam-

How? It was already built but not lived in and I bought it.

And and how was it built like how the design of the house the style was was it-?

It was normal, modern, nice, and well built, and it was affordable at that time-

Yeah, and was this your first house?

This was the first house I owned.

Yes, aa aa what do you remember like something you insisted on having in the house or something you liked to be in the house?

Not really, I bought it as it was-

Ahh.

But there were some renovations to be done and stuff like that-

Yes-

Left and right but nothing major-

Yeah.

Because it had mostly had my needs.

What was your favorite part of the house? Like you mentioned earlier that in the states you like cooking and you were the king of chicken machboos-

Yes, yes yes, no I don’t cook now because-

Yeah-

Because I was on the second floor- and the kitchen was downstairs.

[Al-Ali laughs].

Okay? no I did not, even in all the places after that, then I bought a chalet-

Yeah-

I made sure to have my own kitchen-

[Al-Ali laughs].

But- in Al-Abdali I had my own kitchen-

Yeah-

You know because I like cooking, but everything was near me-

Yes, aa what other things have you cooked other than chicken machboos-?

No not only that aa but I also would grab a book and cook some recipes. And when I got used to it I started to replace some ingredients and stuff I didn’t have what it required, I would replace it with something, and bit by bit with experimenting but now I am getting worse at it [he laughs]-

[Al-Ali laughs] so the replacement method that you mentioned was considered a kind of art-?

Yes, yes, and aa what is it called. No, you know it was fun fun, but I would do it from time to time now I do.

Aa okay so in 19 aa 1986 you lived in Al-Andalous, was the area full of houses or-?

No no no no no it was mostly young people, in this area.

Aa do you remember if one of your friends were in the same area or-?

I don’t really remember, no aa look i- Khaldiya aaa was still in my heart-

Ah.

You know what I mean?

Yes.

So aaa, so I never felt like I was meant to be in Andalous.

You belonged in Khaldiya-

I belonged in Khaldiya, and my eyes were on Khaldiya, whenever there was a chance, I would go back to Khaldiya-

Aa how aa did the move impact the kids and and-

They were little-

The family- And their schools were aa in-?

Aa, aa their schools. My daughter was in a government school, but my son was in a private school.

Aa in the in Andalous, was the government school?

No no no m no yeah, the aa no she was in Al-Khaldiya.

Yeah, and this was in 1986-

Yes yes.

Aam, you mentioned you liked traveling during the summer to different places-?

Yes.

Aa aa in the 80s aa what was the place that you liked to visit the most?

Aa not that I loved to visit it but it was convenient, London I mean-

Yeah-

My father had an apartment there so the family would go there-

Yeah.

But they always looked for new places, like they went to Portugal, Madrid and they went to other places, they went to Hamburg during the time of the invasion, they were in Hamburg.

Nice before we get into the Iraqi invasion on aa let’s say at the end of the 80s aa aa what was aa your impression about the general atmosphere and the political situation and the threats from from from Iraq. What was your impression regarding aa aa your assets the aa so regarding the work or regarding the aa family?

Aa look the events regarding Iraq and before the invasion happened too quickly, in two three month the issues, intensity, and threats escalated. But first a few months prior the Sheikh was in Sheikh Jaber may God rest his soul he was in Iraq, and he gave him the order of Mubarak the Great or something in Iraq and and and a big medal and and and he said that I advised my children.

Yes.

If anything happened to me while I was with their uncle Jaber, you know what I mean? There was not any kind of impression that there was a problem, so things escalated quickly, lastly, the last few months, I I, aa we were not worried at that time, until towards the end the situation and talks intensified.

Aaa aa because you mentioned also that your father and and and and aa in the political field-

No but my father resigned in-

Yeah-

I think in 1981 or something like that.

Yeah- and you grandfather also had a weekly diwaniya-

Yes, a long time ago, aa it was daily not- not weekly yeah.

Aa okay did you hear anything before these events started to happen?

This this is one of the things you, see? that I regret, I regret that I did not use this time to gather information from my grandfather-

Oh.

About his father about his mother about the? Aa old Jahra about- this was a mistake on my part, a historical one.

What did you get from his stories or from aa-?

No, I got some of his personal traits, he had a great personality.

In what way?

Mmm fi first thing aa- he built himself, he gained respect and appreciation from all around, he was one of the most important men in the area- Yeah.

He was illiterate, but he made a fortune for his kids, aaa he worked-

Mmm.

Aaa self-made man, he wasn’t born as a millionaire or billionaire he made it himself-

Yeah.

So what I mean he was more than a good man-

Mmm.

I mean he would give and make and.

Aaa-

All of this I took from him-

Aa do you remember something else other than his qualities like stories that he told you about his childhood?

This is what I was telling you, this is what I regret yeah!

Nothing, not at all or-

We heard from here and there, but we did not hear from-?

What did you hear about him for example?

Hear about him, hmm-

For example, something that happened between him and someone or aa.

Hmm.

Or between you and him?

Mmm. no not really between me and him, his his relationship with my father wasn’t that good, you see? And I was in the states at that time, studying and I came back-

Yeah.

And I took my father’s side.

Mmm.

I didn’t see him for a while.

Mmm. Yes.

So, then I decided that I have to go to him, but I felt like he was heartbroken-

Ahh.

He wasn’t he wasn’t he wasn’t content.

And you were the oldest out of the boys and the grandchildren?

Yes, the oldest one out of the grandchildren.

Yes yes, aa-

Oldest out of the boys, yes boys-

So this was h-

He took it to heart yeah.

Yes-

Aa okay aam aa going back to the subject which is the events leading up to the Iraqi invasion, m aa you mentioned the last two months where events escalated aa what was your impression of these events? We imagined all scenarios, but for them to invade us? We did not we did not mm, we thought they would push us, blackmail us and maybe take a bit of the border, but no one expected that in one night, something like this would happen. That night- my family were traveling.

Yeah.

And I was supposed to go after them, it was Thursday when the invasion happened-

Ahm.

I was supposed to travel on Saturday to London, to see them- Aa London or Hamburg aa I don’t really remember aa-

And you were working at-?

I was working in Al-Fotouh in Saudi, Saudi milk

Aa yes.

In Saudi and I would watch over them-

Yeah.

Anyhow, I was asleep and suddenly the sound of a plane chu chu chu [he mimicked the sound], above me, what happened? My friend called me-

Yeah.

I picked up, it was three or four in the morning, I told him, he told me, that Iraq invaded us, I told him what, what are you talking about, Iraq, he said I swear to God, I am in Al-Shamiyah, his house was in Shamiyah, he said I went up to the roof, there shots were fired above my head [he laughs] what he said, oop oop oop oop oop, I got in my car and went straight to my mom, she was god rest her soul in what is called…

She was in Al-Khaldiya?

Yes, in Khaldiya, I went to her, and I saw people, kids from our family there, they were in in in aa the chalet in Doha they went there you, see?

Ah.

We sent them that and they brought them, and we gathered my brothers in law their wives aa my sisters we all gathered. And bit by bit, we still don’t know, we saw helicopters flying, we would see, anyway, it was all a surprise this operation, so, what happened what happened we tried doing aa but because I had military background, we filled some bags with sand and put them by the windows aa if something was to happen, and we aaaa duck taped the the aa the glass and we did- Aa okay before that when you left the house in Andalous when you heard aa-

Yes.

Aam aa about the news, how did the streets look like?

People drove in the opposite direction [he laughs] people went only with girls, going south they wanted to get out to travel to escape there was a chouse you, see?

This was in the morning-?

But it was the beginning of the morning yeah-

Yes, aa did you notice any Iraqi aa-?

No, I did not see, while I was on my way I didn’t see, I didn’t see.

Yeah, and and and and you reached Al-Khakdiya aa in the morning?

Yes, yes and I stayed, we settled in Khaldiya-

Yeah-

With with the family for seven months.

Aa were you able to call your family in in London on the first day?

Yes, yes yes yes aa the lines were open-

Yeah, mm.

And and and especially they did not find out, then they cut off all lines-

Yes.

But there was a cable a Saudi one and an international one you, see? This one lasted us a couple of days; we were able to call-

Ohh.

So, sometimes I called my company in Saudi and they transferred me to London to speak to my family-

Ah-

So yeah.

Aaa aa okay, and you stayed aa you stayed-

Yeah.

At your mother’s house, aam on the first day, what, like how did you feel, what did you focus on mostly to do on the first day?

How how to prepare food and this kind of stuff, we wanted to be sure and and and the ones who started to bring chainsaws and the one who I don’t know what, everything and and after all on the first couple of days-

Yeah.

The Iraqis did not come all the way in aaa aa-

Into the neighborhoods and such?

Yeah, in the neighborhoods, at the beginning they didn’t come in.

Mm mm.

And then one night we saw them surrounding our area, going around with guns searching for I don’t know what and they kept searching, that was terrifying.

Ah, aha.

At that time I had a machine gun I hid it under the sofa, and a part of it was showing-

Ah.

While the officer was talking to me - aa I pushed it back under the [he laughs] the sofa you see? This-

Aaa-

[Al-Ayar laughs]-

This story aa m you were in Al-Khaldiya?

Yes.

And and how, like the Iraqis came aa they knocked the aa- They rang the doorbell, doorbell, we went out we opened the door, and they said we want to conduct a search, we told them but there are women and there and they gave us, they barged in on us and came inside and searched and thank God- it wasn’t a thorough search, or either way the machine guns under the, god protected us-

This was at the beginning of the invasion, in August-?

Yes, the start start start-

Aa okay aam, aa-

And did we expect that they will come to our houses, like it did not cross our minds that they will enter our houses-

And and in the beginning aa after you reached your mother’s house aa when was the first time you got out by car for example-?

Not really the first couple of days- we were very cautious you, see?

Okay mm-

But still me and my brother-in-law we went to search. We went to Salmiya, and we went to and we went to, count the tanks and we counted I don’t know what, and we talked to the liaison officer he was in in Saudi Arabia-

Yeah-

We said this and that there is control over this and that-

This was at the beginning yeah-

The beginning of the in-yeah beginning th-

Aa describe to me the streets in the beginning aa-?

Aa empty-

Ah.

Aa aa Iraqis in the streets aa people steeling tires stealing it from the ca- it was a hideous view god forbid, it was scary, how did it pass I don’t know.

Aaa in the beg- in the start like the first week or the first few days let’s say-

Mmm.

Were there any checkpoints aa-?

Yes-

From the start?

Yes, but it wasn’t inside the areas-

Aa aa do you remember something that happened to you personally or someone you know at the checkpoints aa?

Yes, a lot of things happened, my mother faced a situation, she had a newspaper with something under it I don’t know what, there was a picture of Sheikh Saad god rest his soul, the soldier told her to curse him or else, what did she do, she cursed him [he laughs] what else to do?

It was pressuring aa-

He was telling her I will shoot you and stuff-

Even with the elderly, yeah-

Yes, with elderly women, aaa, there was an accident that happened in front of our eyes with the petrol all of Khaldiya was full of checkpoints that day-

Ah.

A car parked and a captain came out of the car, with another guy who was driving-

Iraqi?

Yes Iraqi.

Ah.

I think his name was Al-Takrity or something, aa he said whose car is this? There was a Mercedes, it was my brothers in law’s aa-

Ah.

He said my car, the officer told him that it was reported, I told him was there a report on the car or the driver? He said [he laughs] on the driver.

[Al-Ali laughs]-

What? He said [he laughs] so he told me, the, was the car in Al-Mubarkiya? I told him no we did not go there, so he said we have to take it and search it and and, okay, do we follow you? He said follow the secret service? Anyway, look if there is any gold inside so you don’t say that the Iraqis are thieves, we felt like he was mocking us honestly-

Yes yes.

Lastly, he took the car and drove away.

He took it from the house?

Yes from the house, now we are talking about, almost the new year.

Ah.

He said, we were on tv, five or four people- and we see the Takrity with them saying we caught these thieves, and I don’t know what, and these were Iraqis on tv, and this and that whoever has something, should go to a police station. So, my brother-in-law went to the police station and they gave him a paper, with new Iraqi citizen written on it-

Ah-

[He laughs] they told him come to the military academy, military academy this was aa at the beginning of January-

Ah.

So he went with a buddy of ours, they went there to the the aa what is it called, so he told him, he said a guy came sweet talking to me, hi love hi darling-

[Al-Ali Laughs]- Hi and I don’t know what, he told me that he said yeah go look for your car, it is one of these cars there. So I went and looked, and it wasn’t there, that it is not here, he said wait, and who they brought was the Takrity guy and I don’t know what-

Yeah.

He said there the pole in the parking lot, tie him there.

[Al-Ali inhales]

Then he said people came with their machine guns and started to shoot ta ta ta ta ta he told me he started to twirl around the pole, he said anyone who came and said my love and softly and everything he came took the gun and shot him in his head-

Al-Takrity?

Yes, the Takrity guy [he laughs] are you satisfied he asked? He said not satisfied not nothing, anyhow this was the start aa-

Mm sit- weird situation-

He came he came both of them came with pale faces; like that, aa-

And aa did he get his car or-?

No no he did not-

So, he did not get it-

No, they reimbursed him with something simple-

Aam did aa any other situation happen with the Iraqi soldiers at your house?

Yes, they came again-

Yeah-

This time it was foreigners, there were two European teachers at our house-

Ohh, ooh.

And the punishment for this aa-

Execution.

Yes execution, so we hid them inside the kanqiyah (a small storage room) above the bathroom-

Aa what was your relationship with teachers, how h-?

No, teachers, my sibling’s teachers, or something of that kind-

Yeah.

And and they asked for help and-

And they were at your house?

Yes, in our house-

And this was when, what month was it?

I don’t really remember, I would be lying if I said I remember, I don’t remember it was after the gun under the sofa incident-

Yes.

This was the second time they paid us a visit-

Like before- before aa- aa January we can say?

Yes, b- maybe before January-

Yes, yeah yes.

Anyhow, we hid them in the Kanqiyah, and I don’t know, this was hmm they came and turned mm-

They didn’t see?

They did not they did not- not hm-

But how h- aa I mean aa aa how did they know that someone is at your house, or it was only aa a search-

No no no no they were searching in the area as a whole-

Ah, in general-

And then they took then then I told them how about you go somewhere else since they are going from one house to another, and we will bring you food and bring you-

Yeah-

Everything and they left, but you know I said that the punishment was the-

Yes, yeah.

And we had in the house like 35 people.

Yes, everyone was in danger-

Yes yes.

Aa and and the foreigners stayed safe until the end-?

Yes, they stayed safe and got out and went away thank God-

Aa did you know a person aa aa who got out of Kuwait at that time or like-

Yes, a lot a lot a lot a lot-

You helped him to-

We faced the temptation to get out daily-

Yeah-

This one is going, and they are going and stuff but I, I am speaking about myself-

Yes.

I was convinced, I had a feeling that this will not take that long, and I felt like as I watched the start, I wanted to see the end.

Yes, what made you stay?

This, what I told you I wanted to see the end of it.

Aaa-

And then aa you cling to this good land.

Yes. Aa aam regarding the resistance, like did they come by the houses or-?

Our house was really like a hive, beehive, Sheikh Ali Al-Salem was one of the pioneers who helped Kuwait at the time of the invasion-

Yeah.

He was at our house every other day almost. And they would come and meet him, he had a way of contacting via satellite that allowed us to call our families-

Ah.

And everything, he provided us with money-

Distribution for the distribution yeah-

Money distribution and stuff of that kind, they brought and distributed, but this was not only in our house-

Yeah-

This was all the houses, everyone contributed to this operation-

Aa but like when they came, what did you talk about other than-?

There was sometimes laughter really [he laughs] sometimes aa, sometimes if something happened, they would come to us.

Do you remember something that happened aa-?

To Ali?

Yes.

I remember once we went him and I, and we talked on the phone there was was was was aaa what is it called not- Alrawdah-

Mmm.

A house which he placed, anyway, I finished my work, we were about to leave and then a municipality car, they brought it from Al-Basra didn’t work. So, we pushed it with them [he laughs] for it to work, okay? Anyhow I went home, and the day after aa Ali Al-Salem came by, and he told me and he showed me his legs, aa what is it called, you know when you left, the day of the, he said that the Iraqis came, a report came about us, he started jumping from one house to another until he got away, so it was an accident-

Yes.

Yeah, so aah.

Aa what did you do regarding the food, was there m aa-

No, thank God, we were careful you see?

Yes.

We placed some of them under the stairs, a bag of rice a bag of flour-

Ah.

Just in case you know, and it lasted us till liberation day.

And were there like grocery stores, did you go how was it?

Slowly it went low in that, but with the connections and this and that thank God, because Kuwait had goodness and blessings like you have never seen before. Like we never never felt hungry or craved something that we couldn’t find.

[Al-Ali laughs].

And my mother never left the kitchen going in and out cooking for us may God rest her soul.

Mashallah, aa oaky aa, regarding the resistance did anything reach you like aam aa fl- flyers aa-

Oooh since before, the flyers, we had satellites, and we would watch CNN, so we saw- Ah.

Yes yes.

Aa may I drink my coffee?

Yes, you may.

Aa okay regarding the aam the tv since you mentioned satellites, did you get Kuwait television (channel) there like-

It wasn’t Kuwaiti-

Was there accessibility to it the the takeover regarding the Iraqis where there any specific programs?

The events went quickly, mm- they went straight to it the ministry of information and they took control, there were radios, and mobile radio.

Do you remember like any specific programs or did you find something specific to listen to?

No no we listened to the news, you see?

Mmm.

And you know the the first few we were busy taking care of ourselves, so, no one listened to programs but the aa aaah..-

Was there any civil disobedience in aa general?

Oooh oohh- Can you-

No one went to work-

Can you tell me about it please?

Almost every Kuwaiti did not go to work, the only people who went to work were the ones who worked at electrical and water departments. They went to work for the other Kuwaitis, but everyone else did not go to work, this this was a full civil disobedience.

Aa even the school even these stuff-

There was nothing there was nothing-

Aa aa okay aa-

They tried but the couldn’t-

Mm, m aa regarding the electricity, did the electricity at any point during the invasion got cut off-?

Ohh the last, last few weeks of the invasion, it was total darkness, but we had a small generator-

Yeah.

And and we connected it to the two most important things, one is the satellite [he laughs]-

Yeah.

So, we can see what is happening, and second thing is the freezer for the- meat and I don’t know what. So, it doesn’t get rotten.

Aam okay aa regarding your family in London-

Mmm.

Aa what were their activities what, how were aa-

Aaa aa they went- the kids went on protests on the str [he laughs] on the streets, but it depends on the aa-

Do you remember like the slogans that they were chanting in the-?

I don’t remember it, they were there. But what happened, they asked us to record ta- tapes and they showed them and me on CNN, but my face was co- covered with what is it called.

Yes.

And I would say that the resistance is strong and there are high casualties and this and that, and praise Allah, who caught it on tv? My son was like this is my father-

Ah [she laughs].

Ooh there they are, and they repeated it more than one time-

Even though you were aa aa-

No, I had it like that from this-

Yes.

So, he said my dad [he laughs].

And aa so, he was able to recognize you-

Yes, he recognized me.

Aa aa okay in Kuwait did you hear about the resistance or any of the torture?

Yes, we heard, there was the exaggeration and there was the truth.

Can you tell me aa something you heard, specific places aa that had this kind of stuff regarding the torture or-?

We heard about the plant nurseries and in the Public Authority of Agriculture Affairs and that they had their own prisons, Kuwait’s University it was a whole military area, we were in Khaldiya.

Can you describe it to me?

Imagine with the liberation, the kids went I don’t know what maybe brought like a thousand aa of AK-47s there were a lot- aa their armory and everything, it was everywhere you see? But we were hearing rumors that they are starting starting to take people. A guy came to us one afternoon while we were sitting outside watching our kids play, a guy came to us one of our neighbors, telling us to get inside inside get inside they are taking people.

Which month was this?

Yes, this was maybe a month, a month and a half before liberation day or something of that kind- when when that took the aa-

You mean the POWs and the aa.

The POWs, we went inside and looked down, and there were actually cars stopping and taking people and leaving.

And you saw- this thing-

Yes, I saw it with my own eyes.

Was there anyone from your neighbors aa-

One of our neighbors but who exactly I don’t know.

Yeah.

But he was walking back from the mosque-

Ohh-

They took him.

And and where did they take them?

These they took took them aa and after the liberation they set them free.

Aa do you know someone, it doesn’t have to be from your neighborhood aa from the family or an acquaintance that has been taken from the-

Yes. Yes, but from- my brother-in-law aa they took him, mm, my brother-in-law worked at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs he was stationed on the borders doing that, so the moment that happened they took them away-

Oh, did they take them back to Iraq?

Yes, Iraq.

How was his experience in-?

Everyone really expe- what you hear now, so awful for them, not easy.

Mmm.

They didn’t know, and there was no call or, we at least had CNN to watch.

And were there any communications with Kuwait?

We had communication outside Kuwait thanks to Sheikh Ali Al-Salem and the.

Aa any aa other stories you remember with aa Sheikh Ali Al-Salem aa whether with you or him and other pe- aa people in-?

There was no one left that he did not work with, mashallah he was a hero at that time, but as- aa as I told you- no really. Even after all he did, he wanted to do more, it was enough what he did money and I don’t know what- he said no not enough, he came to me once saying that I am thinking there are Kuwaitis here that have money and have everything and their kids study abroad. How can we send them money? [He laughs] you are in a war, worry about yourself before you worry [he laughs] about the students abroad-

[Al-Ali laughs].

Ha? Do they have… this is how he worked you know.

Yes, aa you mentioned the aa aa students or the aa Kuwaitis outside Kuwait, aam do you have any idea h- how they were doing or the how care provided to them?

Kuwait did not fall short on them, the paychecks kept running, they did a lot of things-

Out, outside Kuwait?

Yes, outside Kuwait.

Aam aa regarding the money that was in Kuwait aa do you have any information about how it got distributed or where- where it came from-

Nowhere, it was personal efforts, it was aa- there had been an economic cycle within Kuwait, traders selling their goods-

Kuwaiti traders?

Traders that, that were there-

Mmm.

Ali Al-Salem would write them receipts and take the money- his money from them-

Mmm.

And then distribute it again to Kuwaitis, and they took the credits outside, so they bring goods again-

Yeah.

If there were goods, so there was a cycle-

Was it Iraqi money or-?

That we received?

Yes, yes.

Iraqi, all of it yeah all of it Iraqi.

And it was distributed to families in Kuwait?

Yes.

Aa what was was the distribution aa-?

I don’t really know, they would give me a million or two millions in cash, and then one would come to me from Al-Jahra and tell me give him this amount, like m aa like from Al-Khaldiya we gave them this amount- people would distribute delivering it house to house.

And and aa-

But but as an actual distribution I didn’t, but only through the mediators-

By the individuals that were-

Individuals, yeah.

Aa did you have any family in Al-Jahra at that time?

Most of Al-Jahra people got out-

Oooh.

The situation was not good there-

Mm, it was bad in Al-Jahra?

Yes, yes yeah yeah aah.

Aa do you remember Kuwait City; did you go there by car or?

We did, but no one, it was empty- work aa I told you we had CNN here, so the diwaniyas around us would come and they wanted us to make them tapes, they would see what happened, aa we recorded.

Ah [she laughs]-

[Al-Ayar laughs] so it was like distribution, once they came parked and said we are the Iraqi media we have orders to remove the satellite dishes.

It was obvious the?

Yes, it was big at that time, it was big not like now small, it was in the middle of the roof, anyway, he came with us he said we take what is called the feed horn the one in the middle and take the decoder. I told him, that someone removed the feed horn, and he said what about the decoder we want to remove it, don’t go in there are wo- women and everything, how about I bring it to you-

Ah.

What do you say? And give it to you- Ooh.

He said okay- we have an old one doesn’t work-

Ah [she laughs].

[Al-Ayar laughs] I removed it and left the new one and gave it to him. Anyway, now how do we open the what is it called, how to open this aa-

Without the aam-

The feed horn, thank God a Kuwaiti guy I forgot his name, he had spare parts with him, and he installed the feed horn for us, and CNN worked again, if you had seen it, it was like Eid-

Ah.

He said I only take Kuwaiti, leave this I want Kuwaiti Di- I don’t want Iraqi money, we said Inshallah, so this is one of the weird stories-

Yeah.

He asks me he asks me the one that is cutting what is it called?

How did you manage to [she laughs]-?

No, how do you install a satellite? For us we only have Tariq Aziz I don’t know who that has a satellite, no one, it was forbidden in Iraq, I told him in Kuwait everyone sells it ss?

Aah. Once they found a printer during a search. Old and broken, he said how do you have a printer? How do we have it, it’s our kids’ printer, so he said, every printer in Iraq is sold only after the approval of the Ministry of Interior and they would take the letter from it because the printer has everything, so it would be with flaws like fingerprints, so if a flyer came out, they know how to go back to it it-

They know-

Yes, they would know the owner of the printer.

So, they were fascinated by the things that are available-

That people have these things yes.

Aa yes aam okay you mentioned that this person helped you with the spare parts and –

Yes, and he installed it-

Yes, aa was there in general any cooperating between Kuwaitis or aa different people in Kuwait with-?

Look really with the Kuwaiti, areas like ours like Al-Khaldiya was almost all Kuwaitis the cooperation was evident there was a lot of cooperation was a lot- the thing you need to see is the kids in our area, the cleaning mashallah he- they would pick up the tra- trash.

Yeah.

And when there is food distribution, mashallah you would see them, there were-

Kuwaitis?

Yes, and they would bake and sell and do all kinds of stuff thank God. Did you know anyone who worked at the bakery or in-

Yeah actually, my brother was with them [he laughs] but he aa went to the bakery and they would sell and buy goods like in Friday market was in his area-

In where in-?

Next to the coop in Al-Khaldiya, you could see each one opened up the trunk of his car and stuff whoever wanted to buy-

What did they sell?

I don’t know really all kinds of stuff all kinds.

Aa okay aa like aa the non-Kuwaitis, did you hear aa about aa cooperation aa with- helping the Kuwaitis in secret?

You would hear news really, this and that, but the majority that I that we dealt with we saw only good things from them.

What did you hear for example regarding the cooperation aa with the Kuwaitis, help from Arabs or non-Kuwaiti communities aam?

I will tell you this, once they called, but aaa but I said. Torina called saying that there is rice that they brought from India, do you have anyone in need, I mean it was a big amount of it. This was one of the foreigners that tried to-

Yes.

Yeah yeah.

To help the Kuwaitis.

Yes, yes yes.

Aam aa at at the same the aa time did you hear about any cooperation between Kuwaitis and Iraqis aam?

A few really.

Few.

Yes a few, I didn’t, there were-

Of course.

There are people that have aa an important checkpoint next to them. But they would give them and feed them. Scared of them.

Yes yes-

Not because they liked them-

Aa yes aa it wasn’t cooperation as much as it was trying to ward off evil. Mm, yeah yeah not a cooperation yes yes but there was actually yes yes.

Aa did aa since you mentioned checkpoints aa I feel like this aa-

God forbid-

An important thing aa was there aa a nearby checkpoint close to your house-? Ooh ooh-

Or a mosque where the Iraqis stayed?

No no, they were on the streets, you would see them right away-

And what- things did you notice more at this checkpoint?

The traffic was light.

Mmm.

You know how, when people see the che- and time comes [he coughs] where there will be a lot of checkpoints, and then there will be only a few, they talk to you softly and kindly one day and then they talk to you viscously, like orders like a machine.

Aa what f from the the decisions aa that came out aa from the Iraqi forces during the invasion other than the aa aam forcing citizens to go to work and civil disobedient aa what kind of decisions do you remember?

Something-

Aam.

No one listened at the end-

Not like-

[Al- Ayyar coughs]-

Aa was there a change aa aam the aa-

Nationality- the the the the aa what is called IDs?

IDs for example.

Yes yes.

Or change in aa aam aam the license plates-

For the cars yes yes-

Aa what-

But we didn’t do it.

Oh, why?

This was a kind of rebellion.

Aa but how did things get done if you did not have aa like-

Ah. It wasn’t completely in action-

Ah.

It wasn’t.

Yes

You know they did not have potentials nor the abilities to apply it on half a million cars not even a million car not even.

Any other decision you remember aam?

No these were their decisions, and decisions like curfew things of that kind it was t t aa, the day of the air strike-

Yes.

Kuwait was calm but the shooting was in Baghdad but in Kuwait no one am, my aunt god rest her soul, an old woman, told me sweety, my son is back home I want you to bring him here Faisal, it was three in the morning, two and a half there was a curfew you couldn’t go out, it was dark, but I couldn’t turn my back on her, so I told her inshallah, we had a small car I got in with my brother, and we went without turning on the lights or anything, aa they were in Khaldiya not far away from us-

Ah ah-

At the same bl- we went by car, and we knocked on the door, and he got scared he did not open the door [he laughs] he thought someone was come-

Yes.

And I knocked on the door, until he got out and we brought him back, but if they caught us that night?

It was prohibited.

What prohibited, there was a curfew, and with the lights turned off, someone would have said that this guy is up to something or-

Yes yes.

Mm, so [he laughs] this is one of the things I remember that was aah.

Aa before the aa the aa, air strike did you hear about it, that strike?

We saw it!

Aa before it happened.

No, we saw aa look- I was a sleep, my little brother came to me he was a bit hesitant, he said Bu Mubarak, it told him what? He told me something strange, he said that CNN are moving from Dammam to Washington to I don’t know what, something is about to happen, but nothing happened yet.

This was the 17th of January?

Aa m when was the air strike on the 17th? Yes 17th- anyhow, we went to turn on the tv on CNN, we turned it on and we saw Baghdad on fire, now Kuwait is calm no one knew, and on fire and we talked to our families we made then happy they started singing, Kuwait’s national songs [he laughs]-

Ah-

In the basement and, anyway, after an hour or so, Kuwait was on fire, aa the soldiers found out about it and started shooting in Kuwait-

Yeah.

So aaa, so we saw as it started, we had footage-

Mmm.

My brother and I were sitting, and I don’t know what playing monopoly, there wasn’t anything to do, so one-one of our family members was looking for us, recording when do you expect the air strike-

[Al-Ali laughs].

The air strike when ahh, one of my brothers said in two hours or three hours and actually-

It happened-

Happened [he laughs] it was a coincidence.

Aa and aa aa your family in London did they know about that, that it is going to happen aam how did they feel about you being in Kuwait aam-?

Of course, terrified and everything yeah.

Mm. and the strike aa happened before that, I think in or maybe at the time aa there was a day aa the Kuwaitis were asked to go on their roofs and perform takbir-

No, that was before before-

Do you remember-?

they shot shot above our heads, Allah Akbar Allah Akbar.

And you participated in the-?

Yes, how everyone.

Do you remember- tell me about it-? All of Kuwait went out, everyone went up on the roof aa started saying Allah Akbar.

And you were aa one of the and and your family?

Yes, our mother was with us, with everyone, they shot at us from Kuwait University mm.

And all of you were on the roof?

Yes, yes aa and we after we- went down when it happened aa-

Aa how did you hear that you should do this?

The Kuwaitis talked about it you know-

Yes-

Word went around.

Aa did the aa resistance aa- sent messages through radio or through-

No no no.

You didn’t aa from word of mouth that went around?

Yes, from people talking yeah.

Aa and and this reached you that thia-

Yes yes not the resistance.

Between people.

Yes, between people.

Aa aa okay after the aa the air strike aa let’s say the week after or the next day aa how were things?

Ohh people thought that liberation will be tomorrow.

Mmm.

They did not know that it would be a month, there was a guy at night went out and turned on national songs in his car driving around, aa thank God- inshallah they did not catch him. But, we listened, everyone thought that it will end-

Yes.

A full month, aa and then aah, and you know back then people were being taken from the streets, unfairly, people who were concerned about food and this and that, because every-

Yeah-

Thing was closed, everything, so.

How was that period of time? This month that you mentioned.

I have a brother-in-law he had some chickens outside [he laughs] I saw him. He threw their food from behind the door because at that time they were taking people. [He laughs]-

So that he doesn’t [she laughs]-

From behind the wall, he did not go out [he laughs].

And they took a lot of youth and aa-

The ones on the street, on the street, they took them, they wanted hundreds, thousands of them because they used them in what is it called as a shield.

Mm, and and in this month, they took a lot of the aa-

Yes in yeah-

So, you aa had some youth relatives living with you or mm aa-

We would make them stay here in the house and-

The don’t go out and and-

Not there was no going out at that time- the operation stopped as the air strike happened.

And and aa what your your impression, how did you feel, that this period will be long, did you get any?

We don’t know we thought they will strike today or tomorrow or come in the day after tomorrow.

And ho- how did you get the news, that this specific time or-

We waited we all waited, only waited.

And and aa let’s say the aa the moment you heard that Kuwait is liberated? Do you remember-

Aa before that let me tell you something, there was a guy who worked with us in one of the companies and and in the family’s company you see? They had things and stuff and everything he should should have found someone to buy it before it would get stolen by the Iraqis.

Mmm.

Anyway, then they came to me and told me he took the merchandise and took it to Baghdad, anyhow, I call- I called him, and told him Edmon why? Aa where are the stuff? He said no it is safer here in Baghdad. And selling it here is easier, I told him no this is not acceptable this and that this anyway, my brother-in-law was sitting next to me, I ended the phone call and told him I won’t let let let this go, someone called me and asked me if I am Faisal? His partner governor of Central Bank, that guy’s partner that what is it called-

The caller?

The one who took the stuff-

Ah.

He said are you Faisal, I said yes, he said who do you think you are, still in an overthrown regime? Ha? Th th threatening people and threatening god knows who and th, I told him I was threatening to what is mine.

Ah.

He said you are right, that is your right, I will take you to the police station to make a complaint, he told me, I told him that I am going to Kuwait’s Governor and filing a complaint there-

Mm mm.

Aa here what happened is that I had overreacted- Yes.

Anyway, so yeah and we ended the call, and my brother-in-law was looking at me asking me what am I doing? He called again, and he said the moment you go there tell them that you are Sheikh Sabah Al-Ahmed’s deputy.

Oof.

I said the first thing I will tell them that I am Sheikh Sabah Al-Ahmed’s Deputy.

Ohh.

Like that and we are, and we are [he laughs].

Yes.

My brother-in-law after I hung up, he asked what did you say to him [he laughs]-

Yes ah.

You can't remain at home now.

Mm, mm.

Anyway I went out and went to some people I know-

Yes.

But I did not stay there for long my heart was with my kid- aa aa- with with the kids and everyone there and the. Anyway night time came, and I was home after two days the air strike started.

Aha.

This brought a relief.

Yes.

Yes [he laughs]-

Aam aa okay, you mentioned the stealing- the aa Iraqis aa and you had aa commitment with the companies you remember aa?

That’s what I told you but that doesn't mean they took everything.

For example, like offices from the?

It depends on what they wanted like air conditioning units [he laughs], and I don't know what? They want things that they need there.

And and aa.

And at that time we heard that there was an overload on their electricity network in Al-Basra because of the ac units that they took from Kuwait-

[Al-Ali laughs].

Yes, yes now they had a fire I mean fire and that.

Aam aa okay aa did you hear from him again the man who called you?

No no no [he laughs]-

No you did not hear from him?

No but I saw the the the one that took my stuff.

Ah.

I saw him on the day of liberation-

Ah.

I aimed the gun at him but my mother swore to God that I was not to do anything to him, then the embassy took him back to France.

Yes, amm okay, aa this story is important-

[Al-Ayyar laughs] yeah.

But before we talk about it because you mentioned the liberation day, where were you when you heard or when you as a family heard that Kuwait was liberated?

Liberated? In what is it called in in Khaldiya.

Mm, what were you doing when you heard the news? that moment that you hea-

We were watching CNN watching how the army came and everything, then everyone went outside to look at the soldiers and the.

And there was live coverage? Yes on CNN yes yes yes yes-

And you were watching it live on tv?

Yes watching it live yes yes-

Aa how did you feel?

Aa h aa your country is being liberated. Yeah wow, there were people who were angry and people who had that and-

Mm.

Aa was there aa like aa, anger or sensitivity between the ones that stayed in Kuwait and the ones-

Oh, oh.

Yeah yes, yes those who stayed in Kuwait now they feel that they deserve certain privileges, take everything, yes but.

And and aa did you go out the day you heard Kuwait is liberated?

Yes, I we everyone went out.

Where did you go?

I was exhausted so I laid down-

After all what happened-

All events and and the time, it is like I just walked ten thousand kilometers-

Yes.

I laid down and watched CNN-

The nightmare was over?

Yeah, not only the night ma- but also the responsibility, the household was a huge responsibility-

Yes, and and aam what day was this?

Thur- liberation day.

And and you went out and saw Kuwait-?

They went out and saw yeah, they saw dead people in their cars, the ones the Iraqi killed while they were escaping on Jahra Road and then left-

Ah, aa aa okay you saw for example soldiers on the on streets-?

Yeah, yes.

What, who did you see or what kind of things did you see?

The Americans were present the Saudis and the Egyptians were present-

Aa-

The Kuwaitis-

Aaa did you have any interactions like with the-?

And they fed them, and they invited them to their homes and they ate food with us and that yeah-

At your house?

Yes, yes yes.

Aa soldiers from aa-

American soldiers and those-

The allies?

Mm mm.

Aa do you remember a story that happened to one of or?

Mm, no like I told you that time it was like all my concerns went away-

Yeah-

And I just wanted peace as they say-

Aa aa okay aa when was the first time you visited your office after liberation day?

Yes, it was weird, it was-

Where was it?

In Kuwait Real Estate.

Mmm.

Inside the city it was our office, projects, when you go in you find newspapers dated August 20, aa twenty yeah twenty like aa-

August second yes-

Aa yeah? When was the invasion on the second?

August second yes.

Yes August second, the newspapers on the desks and we had good guys who got the files out and the-

Aah.

Yes, yes before, and we had a carpet, we had a carpet.

An antique?

Antiques and that-

Mmm.

They put them inside the air duct then we took them out and everything, that is my memory from that place, newspaper dated to August second-

It was there the whole time-

On the aa-

Aaa aa what did you notice the destruction the, what you saw in offices and streets-?

Aa burnt down hotels too? They burned, they tried to burn power plants, aa and what really hurt was the oil fires-

Yes.

You watch all your fortune burning by the hands of a mad man.

Aa aa did you go aa and see the oil fires up close or aa-

Look that night one of the kids came to our house he told me up north it's like daylight I went to the roof I looked and saw the oil fires brightly lit immediately, I said he did it the son of a dog-

Ooh-

He was threatening to do it.

Yes yes-

He really did it, aaa but we went through this period of fires and smoke and at that time there was black rain pouring at us, you know you were living in it.

Environmental disaster-

Environmental ooh-

Aaa how was aa the atmosphere? Like when you go out of the house what was?

Sad.

Mmm.

Sad- people enjoyed going around and songs but sad seeing everything so dark during daytime you know?

Yes.

It was dark, and then aa you had work to do aaa Kuwait had to be rebuilt and do-

Yeah.

And we were very optimistic that a lot of repairs are going to start and development but unfortunately it did not.

Mm, okay aa when did your family return to Kuwait aa-

I went to them-

Ah, when was that?

I really was lucky I got out of aa I got out of there right after the liberation, I went to Saudi Arabia, and then from Saudi Arabia I went to Egypt my father was there-

What month did you leave?

Aa in the same aaa month- of Liberation Day.

After liberation day right away?

And then after a week or ten days maybe-

You left by car?

No no no on a plane-

Mmm.

It was a Kuwaiti plane-

Yes.

We went to Saudi Arabia and then from there I went on a Kuwaiti plane to what is it called, to Egypt I saw my father and and and my mother went there too and then I went to London.

How were things in Egypt? For Kuwaitis?

I did not, I went to see my father I saw him for two or three days.

A visit mm-

And I left and I wasn't I wasn't I wasn't there for long.

Then you went to London to your fam-?

Yes, London I didn't see my family for seven months-

Ooh.

So, at the airport I ran but that hug aa-

Aa how were things in London for your family were they comfortable-?

Thank God their apartment ha?

Yes.

Apartment-

Yes.

Second thing, when the invasion happened, I transferred money to them in-

Yeah-

So, thank God they got by-

They were fine, aa and you stayed in London for a while aa-

Yeah, maybe we stayed there for two week or something. Yeah.

And after that?

Then I went back to my work and to the-

Kuwait?

Yes, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia-

Aa and and your family went back with you too?

No, my kids were in schools-

Yes-

There, and and and my wife was even studying art.

Ah.

So, aaa what is it called-

They stayed in-

They stayed there and then I bought them a place outside London in Bath because it was close to their schools and this-

Yes.

So-

Aa okay-

They stayed there for two years before they came back-

You came back to Kuwait from London in-?

My work and all if that in Kuwait and Saudi-

In let’s say like aa aa in April, May?

No-

Before?

No no, the liberation, when was the liberation? Aa-

Aa February.

Aa February, I mean in March then.

March, when you came back, you came back by plane?

Aa yes on a plane-

What was the first thing you saw on the way back?

The darkness and the wells the aa, the view wasn’t.

And and and and you arrived in Kuwait, and you said you went back to work and-

Yes yes-

How was the rebuilding stage or let’s say going back to normal in March, April-?

Mmm.

how was that stage?

People were really engaged and wanted Kuwait to be back and you know how? And and there were no more concerns, aa s aaa, you know really our work in Saudi didn’t stop-

Okay.

I don't remember any obstacles thank God things were smooth things were working in Kuwait but but some things needed work some things needed organization and needed that.

And and aa your house in Andalous aa.

I sold it, I was busy yeah-

Ah.

Sold it, and lived, I bought a house in Al-Khaldiya, I went-

During the invasion- you weren’t in Al-Andalous?

During the invasion in Al-Andalous-

Ah, yes but after the aa the liberation did you aa go and visit your house in Al-Andalous or-?

I lived in it, yes yes I lived in it-

Ah, how was it, was there any trace of Iraqis using the house or-?

No, not really there was a Yemeni family, the man and his kids and wife they lived there, so they preserved it.

Nice.

And and and and he was a religious man, may God rest his soul, he died, if you just saw the Quran verses he wrote around the house it would scare anybody trying to get into the house.

[Al-Ali laughs].

Good?

Yeah.

He was a very religious man.

Aa yes, and did you have any communications with the Yemeni community or aa someone other than this person-?

No, he would-

Yeah-

Come and like this, and and.

Aa since you mentioned something about this aa do you remember how did did they fill the gap left by the the the people who were no longer in Kuwait in terms of workforce in different fields?

Here in Kuwait, we always have an increase in employment [he laughs]. So, I don’t think aa-

But you personally in your field of work did-?

There was no work at that time we didn’t go to work, we did-

No but did you feel like you lost aa aa specific people or specific qualified individuals?

Aaa i-not really- thank God thank God.

This gap was filled.

Yes yes yes.

Aa okay going back to the guy who took your merchandise.

Yes.

What happened after liberation aa-?

He came up to me saying all kinds of things trying to justify himself and I pulled the gun out.

At the house?

I had a gun in the house, which I went out with. And and and and I was furious with him, why would I let someone threaten me and what is called.

Ah mm.

Aa you know. But my mother may god rest her soul, held me back and and she swore to god and told me not to, and we let him go, and we informed the resistance about him.

Ahm?

Aaa I don’t know what happened to him but I heard that he travelled through the French embassy.

He was French?

Yes, and he had a French nationality.

Yes, and and okay, regarding the resistance in that period, was there like an official police force or did the resistance maintain security, during February, March after the liberation?

No no the Kuwaitis would go out with their guns and arrest and check the cars that pass by and look-

Yeah.

If there are Iraqis, personal effort-

And was there-

No no it wasn’t organized- Were there any Iraqis still hiding in secret in certain places?

No no no there were people who didn’t know they were sleeping, but they did not retreat with the rest of the forces.

Mmm.

So, the next day they wanted to follow them, but they got caught.

Yeah- and how were they handled?

That I don’t know-

You don’t-

I did not get myself into that-

Yeah- aa aa okay aa aa-

But if if you see the day of the retreat-

Yeah-

Their retreat was organized every street in Kuwait was going towards-

Ah.

Towards Jahra, and you would see their lights and cars and police cars would drive into the areas that they have passed through, and they would come and if anyone made a sudden move or resist, it’s it’s scary you know. And and- was it safe in general in February or were you still worried about aa-

No no, it was safe, houses opened up, doors were unlocked again and the-

So, you felt safe-

Yes.

Aam okay aa you mentioned that the university was occupied by the Iraqis-

Yes.

Did you visit after the liberation some places that were occupied by the Iraqis and what did you see, like schools or-?

I really did not did not did not go you know I went-

Yeah.

I went to my family-

Aa for example was there anyone member of your family who saw these kinds of places, or have you heard from people?

Mm m yeah you hear about Kazma sports club, and I don’t know here, and places of torture, you know you would hear.

What did you hear for example?

I don’t know aa they would hang them, and I don’t know what else, but I didn’t see, nor I did-

You didn’t see these places personally?

No, no I did not.

Aa aa okay how was the rebuilding process, for example if the streets were destroyed, did they rebuild quickly, who were the people that worked on that, Kuwait or companies from abroad?

Kuwait did not hold back, but it did go in full force for the rebuilding, but thank God thank God.

Aa and you mentioned there were guns laying around aa-

Oooh Kuwait was full of weapons.

Mmm.

Full.

And how was this problem dealt with?

At the end now the handing over and registering the, but it stayed like that for a long dangerous time, I told you our kids brought back from the university about a hundred of AK-47s to our house and they distributed them before-

After the liberation?

Yeah- no on the day of liberation.

Mmm. and and h- how for example aa since you mentioned this point how about aa the issue of the mines?

Yeah, this was a big problem, but they brought companies that specialize in this kind of stuff, but still from time to time you would hear a mine explode, this was the mine problem.

Was there awareness regarding that point any efforts by the country-

The country yes.

For kids or individuals?

Especially who went to the desert, and they would say if you see a weird object don’t get close to it.

Aa did you hear about an accident that happed to someone-?

We heard about a lot of accidents, but we didn’t know any of them personally, there were kids or shepherds.

Mmm. and you mentioned in aa in Al-Jahra that it wasn’t good there-

Yeah, chaos-

Aaa how so-?

But I didn’t didn’t didn’t mm-

You did not see-?

No not personally.

But for example, after the liberation did you go to Al-Jahra and see the or-?

No, not really.

Aa, okay regarding aa you work after the aa invasion how was it going back to work and daily life?

Ah fun, that thigs were going back to normal and on the contrary, these were one of my happiest days.

And and what did you focus on at work, aam-?

Same work as before, but we became corporate, which are projects, I joined in April in 1990.

Nineteen nine and-

Ninety.

Yes, before the Iraqi invasion-

Before the invasion-

Yeah-

I got in-

Ah.

But two months after that-

[Al-Ali laughs]- Invasion happened or was it three months? [He laughs]-

Yes. And and after the invasion-

After the invasion I took charge-

Aa and what projects did you focus on after the invasion?

Look after the invasion, our offices here had moved to Boston in America-

Ah.

And for work and for I don’t know what, so my first concern was how to get things back to Kuwait-

To- ah yes.

And thank God after a while, I started going to the United States of America once every month.

Ah, to Boston.

Because all of our employees were there- And we brought them back gradually.

Aa and what were the projects that you focused on?

When we got back to Kuwait?

Yes yes.

Aa there was a governmental project for allocations, ah?

Ahm.

So most of our companies that we owned, got into auctions in what is it called Burgan Bank, Gulf Insurance, aaaaah what is called Al-Quarin, there was there was more than one company, Untied Real Estate the aa.

And and can you tell me about the period aa at work, aa how were you able to build all of this after the destruction and after aa-? No, it was the right time and our strategies were correct, and the most important thing is we had our investors, the primary, who supported our ideas and they worked with them, so all of that helped, but we will give you but you aa know, the companies' total assets were $200 million, and now today it is worth $35 billion-

Mmm.

The assets of the company, the second thing our employees were sixty or seventy and they have reached 15 to 16 thousand employees, so things developed.

This was after the invasion, you mentioned your family was in London?

For two more years aa-

Two years and the aa-

They came back to Kuwait-

They came back to Kuwait, and you were living in Al-Khaldiya?

No, Al-Khaldiya was in 2000.

2000 ah, and before that you were living in-

Al-Andalous.

In Al-Andalous, so you stayed in aa Al-Andalouse?

Yes yes until my hou- I bought land and built it in Al-Khaldiya and then.

In Al-Khaldiya, and and aa your family stayed in Kuwait aa-?

Yes, yes the whole time yeah.

Aa aa their schools were in Kuwait aa aam-

My daughter already finished Level A and she went to collage here. My son was in a aaa private school, we got our routine back-

Aa the outi- okay, in the 90s aa other than your work what were your other interests?

I wanted a chalet, and I got one [he laughs].

Mm. Where was your chalet?

In Bnaider, in Bnaider and and my interests were what else, we traveled, aaa my family was, look I have two things, nothing more my job and my home.

Nice, mm.

I didn’t have diwaniyas or friends or I don’t know what or I didn’t travel with friends- no, this is my home, so on weekends I would go to the chalet, and we would have fun, in in in summer, on summer vacation I wasn’t always able to stay with them a whole month but-

Yeah-

I would go and stay with them for a week or 10 days –

Yeah-

So, thank God.

And and the places you would go to in the summer time, it was London-?

Different places but yeah-

Yeah-

But London was a primary destination but America-

Aaa-

They would have fun, we took them to Disneyland and to mm-

[Al-Ali laughs] aa okay is it oaky if I ask you a question after all that time aa aa did you personally fly a plane-?

Yes, a small Cesena, not big but yeah-

Where where did fly the plane?

In the United States-

Mmm.

Where? yeah in America in America.

And do you still love to practice this or?

My body is too big it does not fit in the plane [he laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs] wishing you all the wellness and health-

Thank you, what to do.

Aa but you are not thinking of going through this field again or-?

Ah, no no it’s over how old am I now 66?

Aaa-

Even or bala- now we walk on our legs and our balance [he laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs] aa okay any other interests beside the chalet aa do you have any activities or hobbies that you like aa-

In 2000 I learned to golf-

Ooh.

I played golf and read Quran, I finish it every month.

Ah wow.

Aa I like to cook [he laughs], what else aa, aah I take walks, I like to have fun and take walks.

Aa what intrigued you about golfing?

Golf is a great game because you can play it by yourself.

Mmm.

You are at a level and you try to do improve every time.

Mmm.

You can play it with one or four, you can play it, I can play it with Tiger Woods because Tiger Woods is a professional player.

Yes.

But what? If you put his rate next to mine, which is low and there is a difference with his rate I would defeat him-

Ahh.

You know how?

Yes yes.

Yeah they would balance with the-

Yes.

So, it is a great game.

Where did you practice golf in Kuwait?

In Sahara.

Ah, yeah.

Yes, aa anyways.

Outside Kuwait too?

Yes I played outside Kuwait.

Mm mm aa-

The most recent time I played was in Alaska.

In Alaska?

Yes yes, I was playing and then a big moose [he laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs].

Between the trees, looking at me like what. [He laughs].

What did you- what was your reaction?

Not much, I hit the ball and left [he laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs] aam okay aa in that period aa before the before we get into the 2000s these were your activities aa and in the 2000s aa regarding aa aa your work, what were the new projects aa that you took over?

You know our work had many fields, many this was at the end of 80s and in early 90s- and in the 90s we did or-

Ah yes yes.

You know it was something new, and then we got into education (AUK) we had a lot of schools, how many? We had around 13 to 14 thousand students, we got into petrochemicals aaa Qurain, there was always something happening.

In the field of education aa how did you get into this field or what was the decision of getting into this?

Education is one of the sectors that has a big growth, demographic-

It does-

The areas were full of youth, young and stuff-

Yeah-

And people are willing to pay for a good education-

Yes.

So, aaa that was what is it called-

Mmm.

With AUK with Dana being the leader-

Yes-

Nasser ha? Mashallah aa it became an institution-

It was the first university in Kuwait?

No, GUST was before us I think it was the most sophisticated-

A high level.

With Dartmouth, mm-

Yes.

Then we got into other fields, which are from kindergarten to what is it called to to to tot college.

Nice, aa what was your favorite project personally?

Gulf for Insurance.

Why?

When I took over, it was the third company in Kuwait-

Ah-

In Kuwait, now it is the first company in Kuwait, in Bahrain, in Jordan and in Egypt’s private sector-

Mmm.

In a short time, we just acquired the French Aksa Company, insurance for their- aa all of their operations in the Gulf we took it-

Ah, nice-

It’s half a billion dollars uh transaction-

Amazing-

So, it is a great story.

Yes, what is the story?

The story is? A story of how you take something so small and go regional ha? Became very profitable-

Mmm.

Became number one, now we are the third in this whole region, but the first and second governmental companies, we gave them all the governmental work-

Ah [she laughs].

Yeah, but as a private sector- we are the first-

Nice aa, did- did you have any side work at that time-?

For me personally?

Yes.

No.

Mmm-

I don’t mix.

Yes, aa y y-

Okay as an investor yes, I have money in stocks or in something.

Yeah.

But I don’t trade or anything.

Aa okay since we are talking about this, I would like to mention something from your book aam you mentioned aa different aa deals aa what made you focus on those deals?

Here in Kuwait whenever something comes up it turns into chaos.

Ahm.

But it’s like dust ha? Then it blew away.

Calms down-

We don’t know what’s right and what’s wrong and what happened and were-

Indeed.

So this was only to go in depth with the- cases but to see the? To learn from it at least-

Yes.

So, this was my main reason behind writing this book.

Aa this pushed you to clarify these issues?

To write it, to research the information I mean the information didn’t come from me. It was all research. A team came, and they worked with me on the subject.

Yes. Aaa and when did you decide to do this book in-?

It was on my mind for a year really ha?

Yes, mm.

And I talked to a friend and he helped me with the subject-

Yes-

Ha? So he told me why don’t we start and indeed.

And you focused on- multiple deals, aa one of them was aa the Santa Fe deal and and aam aa BP aa can you tell me why you focused on these specific deals? Aam-

Because they did- like like I told you they did what is called the process of provoking-

Yes.

Santa Fe-

Yeah-

The idea was the idea was aa simply that this company is big ha? In the petroleum sector ha?

Yes.

Okay? And and and it had several experiences ha?

Yes.

It has experience and has this and that and this so why not own it and it will become an addition to us, they didn’t know that the company is strong because it was American, and now it is Kuwaiti, things changed.

Mm mm.

And they started taking out old laws and taking out stuff of that kind that impacted, so, aaa and a lot of talk about Santa Fe and Santa Fe and that and there were people who said that they benefited from the market price because aa, so aaa it was what I wrote about it-

Yes, and and and and and and BP deal?

BP deal, Kuwait intended to buy a quota at the time of allocation that was Margaret Thatcher. When the financial crisis happened in the markets, Margaret Thatcher insisted to complete the sale, and they said that she told Kuwait to get into it, and Kuwait reached 10% to 11%- aa reached to 20% of the BP… so, look here they reserve, they told us because you are OPEC ha? So, you shouldn’t be in control, so, they told us to get down to 10%, for all the buzz that happened in Kuwait, the 10% that went down, that won Kuwait seven million pounds-

Ohh wow.

They sold it.

Yes.

At first they said it was expensive, and people talked about how this deal is politicly damaging for Kuwait, and at last they won it-

Yes.

There was a brave decision.

Aa nice, aa okay the Spanish investments for whomever is listening to this recording it is, if you can explain it to me?

Yes, aa look look to be an investor ha? To be an investor and you buy in a nutrition company or I don’t know what company, but you have no experience- they will call it direct investment, they went and bought the biggest paper company and biggest company and another biggest company ha but, who managed it? They put the crook there to manage it-

Oh.

Okay? So embezzlements and games and money started to happen and-

And there were loses aa-

Big loses yeah.

In the Spanish deal, aam okay aa if you can tell me about the K Dow deal, aam-

Deal?

K Dow.

Yes the Dow.

Mmm.

It’s such a loss, the idea was number one, the idea was right, we wanted them to have a big role in the petrochemical field and this kind of stuff because we export crude oil-

Indeed.

You have to do added value, ha?

Yes.

And the added value aa the technology was right, what was wrong was the I’m not a technician, but this had reports written about it-

Yeah-

The people who talked about it, but one to approve on a deal knowing that the penalty is two billion dollars if you did not go by the deal and they reject it, it’s like you are giving away two billion dolla-

Yes.

For the company the aa, these mistakes maybe even the simplest person won’t make-

Yes, aaam okay aa maybe I mentioned before we started the interview about the Free Zone issue, aaa aa-

It wasn’t built right.

Mmm.

The free zone ha? It was supposed to help with re-exporting and do things and that-

Yes-

Stimulate the economy ha?

Mmm.

But this was a real estate business.

What went wrong [she laughed] can we say-

Aa the the country did not exactly say what they wanted-

Mmm.

So, they allowed the investor to think what is best for him.

Mmm.

So, it did not work with- they looked away on some violations but then they took it from him and.

And aa where are they now, what is the current situation?

I think legally or something of that kind between them.

Aa okay regarding current projects in Kuwait aa-

What projects? [He laughs]-

[Al-Ali laughs] lack of projects you can say-

No no not here are- yeah yes.

What projects can we say have hope or something you are hopeful about personally?

I did not I did not I did not I did not hear about anything yet that gives me hope- there was a target towards 2035 ha? Even this is heartbreaking, Kuwait used to be a pioneer in many things ha? Fifteen years ago, there was a bidding for six-by-six kilometers next to Abdali-

Aha.

Ha? Next to Abdali so it serves the Iraqi market, nice idea- it could have benefited Kuwait ha? Benefit Kuwait, aa Kuwaiti lawyers can work the the the accountants and they could work the banks and insurance and everything- and Iraqis a lot ha? They could have stationed there because the general Kuwait atmosphere ha? Was comfortable-

Yes-

We have the infrastructure, unfortunately, and the deal settled for someone from a group, but a member of the parliament stopped it.

Why?

You are giving away land and and anyway the 15 years, now they thought about doing it, 15 years just was lost and people lost money, ha? Jordan and Syria they all did similar things and that-

Yeah.

But we had the best place.

What do you think the reason is aa?

It was the political situations, they looked at an investor and judged him saying that they steal and they want to steal and do.

Mm aa do you have any hope for the near future that things will change?

Depends on leadership, I am talking about the head of the Council of Ministries ha?

Yes yes.

He has to be able to have a vision ha? Implement a system and follow it.

Nice aa, aa aa okay aa before we move on from your book aa-

[Al-Ayar laughs]-

What subject did you talk about in the book, the most subject that let’s say you faced problems with regarding research or regarding accessibility, aa what was it?

No, there are some side issues that I brought up like Kuwait Airways and I don’t know what-

Ah yeah-

Lost opportunities I didn’t write about it a lot.

Ah, do you wish that you spent more time on it-?

No no no since I brought it up, I should have gone into depth-

Yes. Aa would you like to add something to this subject, the Kuwait Airways subject-?

No no no I don’t have the now, but I mean since one started research and included those things in depth.

Okay, aaa aa other than the book can we go back to your childhood phase, that we talked about, do you want to add something to it? Not childhood, I told you didn’t I about-

Or your teen phase?

Restaurant and stuff ha?

[Al-Ali laughs] yes.

We went to the knafeh place-

Yeah.

It’s called Jabri.

Ah Jabri.

Yea ha? And it is in Jordan, we went to Jabri on Eid and the other one who introduced hamburgers to the Kuwaitis it was called Harun Al-Rasheed.

Harun [she laughs].

Ha? On Fahad Al-Salem both of them were on Fahad al-Salem-

Where they from specific nationalities aa-?

Yes one was Jordanian and Harun was I don’t know who owned it but at that time they told us they brought round meat [he laughs]-

[Al-Ali laughs] they didn’t even call it hamburger-?

No they told us, they taught us hamburger yeah.

Do you remember since we are talking about this, any other places that you went to, restaurants even after that period?

No you know us Kuwaitis we went to the small one Bu Khaleel restaurant ha? He would make sandwiches ha? In Kuwait City-

Yeah.

It would be packed with people and people sitting in their cars.

What kind of sandwiches?

Shawarma and I don’t know what, you reminded me of a friend he loved to eat-

Yeah [she laughs].

He would ask what do you want to eat, and he would reply what do you have, he said we have this and that this and that this and that this and that, so he said give me one of each [he laughs].

[Al-Ali laughs] and he ate them all?

Yes he did [he laughs]-

Aa okay the fancy restaurants opened up in hotels and aa?

Yes, look the one who introduced us to Chinese food ha? That time what was it called? Caeasar-

Aha.

Do you know Caesar? Caesar taught us food the Chinese we learned it from it, aa and there was the Japanese in Hilton, introduced us to ha? Japanese food, what else … and Lebanon when we went to Lebanon, we would learn there.

Aa oaky would like to add something about when you were studying in America, something I forgot to ask about or?

Yes yes yes yes, no, I mean America was yeah aah… we were in Pittsburg, Texas. It wasn’t even on the map [he laughs] because of how small it was, and everyone who worked in the city was at the base ha? Even when they closed the base then the citizens protested because everyone was retired ha? So when we wanted to to go and stay up and go clubbing don’t know what we had to drive 50 miles, to Midland ha? And and because the drive was long- it was late at night so we slept in Midland [he laughs]-

[Al-Ali laughs]-

And get back the next day.

Yes. Aa what was the most aa thing you learned from America a lesson m regarding the social or regarding the the daily life? Something you did not learn in Kuwait.

You learn aa discipline you learn you know how? Aa aah, you learn their food [he laughs], ha? No but I mean the Americans are simple aa and and their culture is limited to their country-

Yes.

I mean general information m- but what I like about the Americans is their dedication- like when our instructors come ha? And- after he would tell us here is my number if you have any problem or you want to know more or something call me ha? aa very dedicated people on these subjects.

Yes, aa did you face aa any difficulties when you got back to Kuwait like things aa you learned and got comfortable with there and in Kuwait you did not find that, like when it comes to parents or the the work?

No.

No no, you did not feel the the aa difference, aam, okay anything you like to add about the invasion aa?

[Al-Ayyar laughs] more than what I have already said.

No no nice aa of course but-

Inshallah.

Yeah.

Aa you reminded me of those days ooh.

Aa yeah. Aa okay aa aa before we finish aa aa the interview aa is there anything you like to add aa regarding work the the aa the current projects that you are working on or your personal life?

Nothing, but if you have something more to add and everything-

Yes-

If there is- if you want we can try aaa, thank god thank god I was blessed, I mean I was blessed with my family ha? Thank god with my wife and I are married for 44 years, aaa I am blessed with my kids and grandkids that I see, blessed with my career, I went to this work by chance-

Yes-

A pilot and I was a good pilot I was I was the youngest one who got recommended to be aaa to be a trainer ha?

Yeah.

I changed my career at a risky time and risky on aa risky on my kids and risky on my career-

Yeah-

When I quit the army and went to Al-Manakh, and then Al-Manakh collapsed and work and family-

Yeah.

The career change and that-

Big shift.

Big shift and the the corporates the ones I was in and thank god thank god.

Thank god.

All this ride, I don’t regret anything.

Ooh, very nice.

[Al-Ayyar laughs].